OOAK Table Tennis Forum

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The Desperado 2 seemed to have released without much fanfare. Anyone tried it yet?

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The Dark Side: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda

I’ve been using it for a few weeks (0.6mm), but mainly just some light practice and ball machine. The season is just getting under way here after summer break. So far I like it a lot. I haven’t tried the original Desperado, but I can compare some features to Number 1 which I also like very much. The pimples are spaced further apart than Number 1 and not quite as soft, though I’d still consider them quite flexible rather than stiff. It is slightly faster than Number 1, though still very slow compared to most LP’s.

As for how it plays, I seem to notice more disruption when blocking than Number 1 and a little less consistent when pushing and chopping though still very controllable. Might not be quite the all-rounder that Number 1 is, but I think it will be more effective over the table. There’s not much grip and service returns are easy. Attacking should be possible though that’s not really my game. I’ll have a more informed opinion over coming weeks and months. I’m looking forward to playing competitively with it.

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2. S&T Black & White / Armstrong SH-I 1.8 / Zeitgeist OX

Anyone tried it yet. Would love to know how it compares to gangster or No 1.

I've been playing with it on my robot over the weekend and have my first league match with it tomorrow evening.

I always find it hard to judge a rubber against a robot as with the consistency of ball that a robot produces, it's easy to get into a rhythm of returning the ball and therefore it can distort someone's view of how good a rubber is. That said, I've been impressed with the overall control of Desperado 2. It seems to block the ball well, is quite insensitive to spin and is easy to push and move the ball around the table.

I have been using Dr. N Gangster recently which I love and the Desperado feeling similar. I think the Gangster feels a little bit slower with a softer feel to it when the ball makes contact. I also find it easier to keep the ball lower off a block with Gangster.

Desperado 2 blocks equally as well, but feels a touch faster (there's hardly anything in it to be honest) with a slighter firmer feel when the ball makes contact. They are both quite similar though with the main difference appearing to be the ability to flick / hit the ball with Desperado. Don't get me wrong, you can flick it with Gangster, but I find it quite a bit harder to do so, whereas Desperado feels easier to lift, flick and punch the ball over the net.

I'll have a good practice with it tomorrow and test it out against some real opposition, then report back. However early impressions are very positive

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
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Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

As promised, I'm reporting back on my first proper hit with Desperado 2. The rubber is currently on my custom Ross Leidy blade which is all wood ( white ash + kiri) with an ALL speed. In other words it's good for blocking and hitting. I have a sheet of Gangster on my second blade which is the same construction, but is a touch quicker (the balls pings off more).

Comparing the two back to back, the Desperado 2 should be slower. It's a touch slower on the ratings and on a slower blade. However when I played with it last night it felt the faster of the two rubbers. The ball sat up more off passive blocks close to the table whereas the Gangster stayed lower. That said, when I got the angle right, it went back low and arrow straight. When this happened, my opponent struggled to loop / hit the next ball.

I also found it good for receiving serve. Again the Gangster is easier and I could drop it shorter, but I put this down to the slightly faster pace of Desperado 2. However, when I did meet the ball positively off my opponents serve, he put nearly every return in the net. It was bizarre and I don't know what the rubber was doing.

When we finished our game, I asked him how he found playing against it and he said it was "nasty" and that it was "hard to judge". He said some shots would float with little spin then others would have spin on them and it was hard to read. I didn't beat him but I won a lot of points from forcing errors from him. Where I lost points was the lack of overall control. It was just a little too quick from what I'm used to.

I used the Gangster for the last two games and won both, beating arguably their best player with it. I forced a lot of errors again and even managed to hit with it.

I think Desperado 2 is good if you want a slightly faster, more active game close to the table. Personally my style is more suited to pushing, blocking, lifting with the pips, occasionally hitting with it, but using it to control the rally and then set up the ball for my forehand. For that style, I find the Gangster better suited to my game.

Sonin summary, I'd say that Desperado 2 is a slightly faster more active version of Gangster. Both receive spin well, block close to the table and enable you to force errors from your opponent. Personally though, I find Gangster easier to play with.

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
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Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

I really like D2 but I've recently switched back to P3aR for the time being. Both are excellent for my game which is primarily blocking and aggressive pushing. However, I like to use a very thin sponge and I slightly prefer the feel of TSP's thin sponge (probably better described as a rubber backing) to Neubauer's thicker and spongier 0.6mm ones.

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2. S&T Black & White / Armstrong SH-I 1.8 / Zeitgeist OX

Yes, I think if you like to use a thin sponge, then the thicker Neubauer sponges probably aren't the best to use.

I use all of my pips in OX personally and will be trying the Desperado 2 again on another blade which I think will better suit it. The glue sheet has also been removed, so it'll be interesting to see what difference this might make.

I'll report back when I've had another practice!

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

Ok I've now had another practice with the glue sheet removed and it definitely feels a lot better. The ball seems to sit lower off a passive block and goes nice and straight rather than kicking up. I also found that the ball was easier to lift and push with as well.

I still find it a quicker rubber compared to the Gangster however. Gangster to me feels softer and slower whereas Desperado 2 feels firmer and a touch faster off the rebound. However both rubber block the ball nice and low and I'm sure I could happily play with either.

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

I thought I’d post another update now that I’ve actually tried the Desperado 2 again in a league match, without the glue-sheet attached, on an identical blade to the one I have Gangster on!

The results I have to say were quite surprising. Before I detail what my thoughts are, it’s worth pointing out that in the past I have preferred a slower style pip that is good for blocking close to the table. I like to drop the ball short, push it long and where possible, make it wobble about! I tend not to twiddle during rallies and only really do so when I serve. I’d say that about 60-70% of my shots are taken with the pips during a rally - pushing, lifting, chopping, flicking (I’m still learning this shot!) and dropping it short. My aim is to either force errors from my opponent by mixing up my returns between float balls and spin balls off the pips or get the ball to “pop-up” where I’ll then aim to get my forehand loop in to win the point. I also like my pips to be good at receiving spin serve and take the pace out of the ball.

Having swapped over to play with Gangster recently, I’ve been impressed by its ability to do all of the above very well. It’s a fairly slow and soft rubber which takes spin serves easily and is quite easy to drop short. Pushing, lifting and blocking close to the table are also very easy to perform and when the ball makes contact, it has a nice soft cushioning feel.

When I first tried the Desperado 2 out, it felt quite a bit more lively. My passive blocks and pushes were going long and I when I tried to drop it short, the ball would go into the net. I had it on a slightly different blade that I’m used to playing with, so I swapped it to my regular set-up and removed the glue sheet.

The differences were quite stark! Firstly there was more control and the rubber didn’t seem as lively. Now this could be the blade rather than the glue sheet, but it felt much more controlled. Whilst the speed is still quicker than Gangster, the main differences I found was as follows:

1.) The rebound height of the ball from passive blocks with Desperado 2 seems to go back in a straight line. I found that although Gangster feels softer and slower, the balls does tend to “sit up a bit more”. Whilst I can drop the ball shorter, it’s a higher return. With Desperado 2, the ball goes back flat and straight. The speed is quicker than Gangster, but in a strange way it feels easier to block with even with the increased speed.

2.) The pips on Desperado 2 feel stiffer and harder than Gangster. There’s not a massive difference when you press them with your fingers, but when the ball makes contact, it feels more precise and hard rather than cushioning and soft. Again, this does mean that it feels quicker, but when you block the ball, it seems to be easier to place it on the table with more precision.

3.) Hitting / flicking seems to be a lot easier with Desperado 2. It’s probably due to the slightly firmer pips, but I could brush and flick the ball more consistently than I could with Gangster.

4.) Finally and probably most importantly, I think Desperado 2 is doing more to the ball in the “funky department”. When I returned spin serve with Gangster, I could easily control it, but my opponent was able to lift and hit the next ball without any drama. With Desperado 2, they seemed to put a lot more into the net or just make more mistakes in general. When I passive blocked the ball up close to the table with Gangster, they were able to re-loop the second and third balls without too many issues. I don’t tend to chop block and I know that this creates more backspin making returns harder to lift, but passive blocks were controllable but not massively dangerous. With Desperado 2, because the ball was going back flatter and slightly faster, they were struggling to lift the passive blocks. In fact, when I got a really good block in, their next shot would always go into the net. I honestly don’t know what it’s doing and what spin is on the ball (I will learn and find out), but the number of errors made by my opponent with Desperado 2 was a lot higher compared to Gangster.

So in conclusion, I think there is more potential with Desperado 2. Yes it’s a little bit more lively and not as easy to control, but with practice that will improve. However it seems to be a lot more effective in creating errors from your opponent. I’ll continue to play with both, but I think over time the Desperado 2 will give me more options!

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

I've had a few nights with Desperado 2 and will be doing a review soon as well.

Initial thoughts:

Grippy, lively (like you guys have said) long pip. Made for the modern blocker for sure.

I am finding it relatively easy to chop block 5 high spin loops back. I Agree that it's not easy to keep it short, but the blocks are linear and the Rubber is highly responsive - It's one of the first in OX I've used in a while that seems to give what you put in. If I have time and put "more chop" on my chop block, it achieves some very, very high reversal.

No spin blocks are a bit of a challenge. because it's quite quick and not insensitive to spin, the timing really needs to be spot on to be able to control "Kill spin" a fast ball.

I have a tournament this weekend and will see If I can get a vid up

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BACK TO THE OLD(new style)
Xiom ICECREAM ASX
Victas V-15 EXTRA MAX ( Alx Side)
Dr Neubauer Troublemaker OX (ZLX Side)

"I dare you to push long. Go on. Do it. "

Here our (german) review (with english subs) of Desperado 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWpKGf8o2wM

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GeblockTT - table tennis on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/c/geblocktt

Just saying - The guy using the Desperado 2 is basically my German Doppelganger. Style, technique, and LOOK - really, really funny stuff.

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BACK TO THE OLD(new style)
Xiom ICECREAM ASX
Victas V-15 EXTRA MAX ( Alx Side)
Dr Neubauer Troublemaker OX (ZLX Side)

"I dare you to push long. Go on. Do it. "

So I played a large team event over 4 days recently and am Keen to post my thoughts on using this Rubber over those few days.

The level of play at this tournament I would describe as quite high. This was the State selection championships that gives eligibility to represent at nationals and play for the opportunity for an Australian team spot - so the tournament tends to be players of a higher level and up - as well as the current highly trained juniors that are "on the way up " so to speak. The benefit of having players much better than me to play against with this style over this time period is they tend to exaggerate your weaknesses and issues in the game, because they just have an ability to naturally exploit it. Makes for great table tennis and some very long games.

My Background: Returned to table tennis after 6 year break. played casually last year, but training this year to get back to representative level. I copped a "hit" while using and trying to learn how to use anti for a while - and as a result my Ratings central rating took a 150 point drop, and I'm at about 1260 now after 6 weeks using OX pips again. I expect to continue to climb and probably settle at around RC 1400-1500, which is where a majority of my matches go 50/50 with opponents of a similar level now that I've switched back to OX. Goal is to get above 1500. I am a LP OX blocker and hitter with a focus on "off the bounce" fast pushing, who runs around like a madman to hit as many forehands as I can.

General Commentary: Tacky/Grippy long pips. Fast, lively, and rather vicious on reversals. Even in OX, it does generate its own spin on serves which made for some great deception. However service return is also affected, due to its grippiness you'll find it can be quite sensitive to spin. I almost have to treat it like inverted with my responses in order to make the most of the rubber. I choose this rubber due to its apparent grippiness and attacking/pace capability and it does not let me down. It is faster than the JengKing, probably a little slower than Grass Dtec, but grippier and more spin/spin sensitivity. Close to the table, it's not overly forgiving but in general effective at moving and troubling my opponents. Away from the table, I found again it's got some really good ability to put chop on the ball, but due to its sensitivity bat angle plays a big role on being able to chop the pants off those heavy topspin's.

Pros: I don't like using the word "Deception" as long pips are not inherently deceptive, but the strokes we play can be. So I won't be addressing deception specifically. This rubber has very strong reversal on the chopblock reversal stroke, and can really keep the ball short provided that you're given a ball that isn't too long. I found that my main tactic was to chop block on every single short serve I could to drop it short, as even the very high level players struggled to flick that return and tended to give me a push (yay!). The "Spin Kill" stroke is also effective (hard to read) though i was struggling to control this one and keep it on the table; This may be a lack of training on my part but I could not keep my float balls on the table often enough, they were missing by not very much. Provided you read the serve and action the return appropriately, It is a real weapon. Add a twiddle to the mix and people get very upset. This rubber really shines with Attacking shots - long pushes or short/high backspin were very easily just rolled and put away. Because of it's great reversal, these were pretty much topspin attacks so If they came back, Counter rally was on. Finally on chop (which I admittedly do not do often) - This rubber is a great chop rubber for players not chopping all the time with OX. You can really load up the backspin against the nospin ball due to its grip, and the reversal chop is really great against a heavy topspin. I had players of National standard dumping these into the bottom of the net.

Cons: Spin sensitivity, speed sensitivity. Basically the trade-off with the strong reversal of this OX. I had a very difficult time being able to control those "long" balls into this rubber. When I was playing well I could keep most returns short but it's so lively that you have to be really spot on with the timing in order to stop your opponent going in for the kill. To adjust I actually had to stop "trying" to hit it short, instead trying to hit those ones as long as possible, off the bounce so that it was a bit faster, in the hope the attacking player then slow loops rather than kills. Service return takes some adjustment, particularly if you have used LP's for a while. you'll be surprised how many you just don't adjust enough on at first. I found also that players using light spin in their game rather than heavy had a much easier time playing me. A few of the more "flatter" styles had a much easier time playing against this rubber, simply because the ball tended to sit up a bit too easily. Passive blocking (reach your bat out and hope) was not so good. If you were in the wrong position or angle, the block or hit was always weak. Margin for error is small with attacks on backspin and if you take it too late, you'll dump it into the bottom of the net.


Overall: My current choice for the time being at least. It suits the way I play as a close to table attacker, using my LP to set up an aggressive forehand, and/or using my LP to pounce on weak backspin balls for winners. It takes work in that you need to spend time adjusting to its sensitivity, and if you play a more passive blocking game I probably do not recommend this, as there is just not enough margin for error when you're using the LP to get back into the point. If you play a modern attack game with some Chop, I believe you would enjoy this rubber also due to its spin capabilities. If you are aiming or learning to be an attacking LP player, you will get a lot of joy using this. It's so much fun to be able to hit Push winners against high level players that you feel often move faster than the speed of light.

_________________
BACK TO THE OLD(new style)
Xiom ICECREAM ASX
Victas V-15 EXTRA MAX ( Alx Side)
Dr Neubauer Troublemaker OX (ZLX Side)

"I dare you to push long. Go on. Do it. "

Very comprehensive review.

My own experience was a bit different. I didn't find it very fast or grippy. Maybe that's just related to my own style and I was using a thin sponged version which may behave a bit differently.

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2. S&T Black & White / Armstrong SH-I 1.8 / Zeitgeist OX

I'd agree with your observation there mate - the Dr N sponge is very slow and for this rubber would more than likely slow it down, particularly if it's on a slower blade too. The Matador Texa is pretty darn stiff and quick, and when i hit with this it makes a very loud noise! They're probably still grippy so you'll find it easy enough to get some good spin on a chop, but speed will be a different beast.

_________________
BACK TO THE OLD(new style)
Xiom ICECREAM ASX
Victas V-15 EXTRA MAX ( Alx Side)
Dr Neubauer Troublemaker OX (ZLX Side)

"I dare you to push long. Go on. Do it. "