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PostPosted: 10 May 2018, 16:49 
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The Twiddler
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With the now "not so new" plastic ball, I wondered if there was a long pip that was viewed as being the best for passive close to the table blocking? Also, something that was fairly insensitive to spin when receiving serves?

I've found that some of the previous pips I've used (that were designed when the old ball was used) don't seem as effective with the plastic ball.

I've been playing with Dr.N Gangster which does seem very good and Desperado 2 (which is more disruptive but harder to play with) but I wondered if there was anything out there that the pips users on here have found to be very effective.

It would also be good to have something that blocks nice and low without the ball sitting up.

Any recommendations would be very welcome.

Thanks :)

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Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
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PostPosted: 10 May 2018, 17:20 
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For my close to the table game Dtechs ox is the best. End of.


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PostPosted: 10 May 2018, 23:00 
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Blade: DEFPLAY(CUT DOWN)
FH: RAYSTORM 1.9
BH: BEST ANTI(THICK)RED
I used Dtechs ox on a defplay for a while.very good close to the table.Nasty blocks.
I would stick to this but i cant move on from my beloved best anti :Chop:


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PostPosted: 11 May 2018, 01:03 
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Blade: Tibhar Stratus Power Def
FH: Tibhar Evolution ELP
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecS
Still Grass DTecS ox for me.
Bulldog

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Tibhar Stratus Power Defense
Tibhar Evolution ELP
Tibhar Grass DTecS Ox


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PostPosted: 11 May 2018, 16:29 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Armstrong SH-I 1.8
BH: TSP Curl P3 Alpha R OX
I've settled on P3aR OX.


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PostPosted: 11 May 2018, 20:06 
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Blade: XVT Balsa Carbon 10mm all
FH: Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
BH: Globe 979 OX
Globe OX 979 does a good job with better control than Dtecs.

Giant Dragon Talon has a little more funky than Globe 979 but is also harder to control.

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Panda Drive / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max / Play right-handed
XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 01:52 
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Chris - Grass DTecs in OX is as good as it gets for disruptive LP in my experience. If you’re looking for something even more extreme then you probably need to look at anti. Beast is particularly good as a starter.

The trouble with going towards the frictionless end of equipment is that you become very vulnerable to intelligent players - see sitting ducks for details. That’s why ultimately to improve you need sponge.


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Tackiness C 1.9 (black)
DTecs OX (red)
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PostPosted: 14 May 2018, 16:10 
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Blade: XVT Balsa Carbon 10mm all
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BH: Globe 979 OX
Konkrete wrote:
Chris - Grass DTecs in OX is as good as it gets for disruptive LP in my experience. If you’re looking for something even more extreme then you probably need to look at anti. Beast is particularly good as a starter.

The trouble with going towards the frictionless end of equipment is that you become very vulnerable to intelligent players - see sitting ducks for details. That’s why ultimately to improve you need sponge.


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The problem with Dtecs is cost there are others at 1/4 the cost and last longer.

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Panda Drive / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max / Play right-handed
XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 01:45 
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The Twiddler
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'd be tempted to try a sheet of Dtecs although I'm not sure how lively it is compared to something like Dr.N Gangster? Has anyone played with both? If so, how do the two compare?

Thanks,

Chris.

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 06:43 
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Blade: Ross Leidy Sotto Voce
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BH: S&T Schmerz OX
ChrisBuer wrote:
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'd be tempted to try a sheet of Dtecs although I'm not sure how lively it is compared to something like Dr.N Gangster? Has anyone played with both? If so, how do the two compare?

Thanks,

Chris.



DTecs is much faster/lively, has significantly less grip, has less control, but has significantly more deceptive/wobble effects. DTecs is harder to hit with and play aggressively then Gangster due to the lower grip. DTecs has much better reversal on passive blocking. I found DTecs harder to play with then Gangster but it’s also harder for my opponents. Having said that if you persevere with DTecs I’m sure you’ll learn to adjust shots, blade angles etc. If it suits your particular game DTecs is really good.

They are actually very different rubbers. I like to think of LPs as having a spectrum or range of playing characteristics. At one end you have low grip rubbers like DTecs with high deception and high reversal. At the other end of the spectrum there are high grip rubbers such as Feint 3 which allows you to add your own spin. On this spectrum I consider gangster to be an all rounder.

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 11:07 
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Blade: Joola CWX
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ChrisBuer wrote:
I'd be tempted to try a sheet of Dtecs although I'm not sure how lively it is compared to something like Dr.N Gangster? Has anyone played with both? If so, how do the two compare?

I tried sponged Gangster briefly. It felt close to sponged (0.5) Dtecs that I am using now, althought significantly slower. I felt that Dtecs was more effective, as balls go fast and low.


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PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 17:46 
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The Twiddler
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Thanks everyone. Given that I've had issues controlling Desperado, which I think is slower than Dtecs, I think the Dtecs will be too lively. I'll therefore persevere with Gangster :)

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
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Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


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PostPosted: 17 May 2018, 07:18 
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Blade: Innerforce ZLC
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BH: Tenergy 64
The re-impact tachi blade has a backhand blade composition that was specifically made for Grass dtecs in ox. My partner plays this exact setup with aggressive tenergy 05 forehand. It can be incredibly annoying to play against when his touch is on point.

However it should be said, that to make any long pip work, requires that you have played with the same blade and rubber combination FOR A REALLY LONG TIME. Long pips, especially in ox at the table, requires a feel for the ball that is really only acquired from playing with it a lot. The perception on frictionless long pips is that you'll be able to slap it on and effectively hide your backhand weakness immediately. While this is true to some extent (spin insensitivity to serves), you quickly run into problems the moment you play someone that doesn't have a problem looping back sinking/no spin balls. Being able to gauge the incoming speed AND the incoming spin, both independently, influence the kind of return you need to perform. From how hard you hold the bat, to your angle, to the motion you brush the ball, etc. It requires that you're holding multiple factors in mind at once when returning different types and qualities of spin and speed. However, as we all know, table tennis is too fast to be actively thinking about what you should be doing. It needs to be drilled into procedural memory so that it's unconscious. This takes forever.

I suggest watching Ronal Davidoff's matchplay on youtube for examples of what this play style looks like at a very competent level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhwvHiWESI8

Additionally, there are 3 videos by a Korean woman where she goes over some of the strokes and strategies of ox dtecs (on a butterfly Korbel). Here's a link to one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL7YSMJjT1w


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PostPosted: 19 May 2018, 16:35 
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The Twiddler
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I completely agree ruK! I've said the same thing in the past that to make a long pip work, you need a lot of time and practice with it. The instinctive angles, blocks, the way you hold the blade, etc that you don't think about when you return a ball only come with hours of practice. For that reason, I'll stick with my Gangster and put the hours in as that's the only way I'm going to improve.

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand:
Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
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Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!


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PostPosted: 20 May 2018, 00:44 
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Agree, RuK and add, as I believe you intended, that the blade plays an important role in the lp selection and use. Following McAfee, I also use the Tachi/Titan blade with a friction lp, Giant Dragon Cropcircles, and every practice day I'm still learning, even after of years with this combo. In the excellent youtube long pip instruction videos, you'll see McAfee with this combo and note the active (not passive) use of the Titan/GDCC. With the plastic ball, the days of passive blocking would seem to be on the decline. Don't know how the Ross Leidy blade compares with Rendler's Tachi but it's a factor that should be included in the equation.


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