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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 01:41 
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I played with BH OX LPs many years. I chop-block, chop and push and roll. I want to try something else with more control for counter-attack. Actually I have no experience with normal inverted BH at all.

I tried tackiness chop 1.9 on the slowest TSP Balsa+ 2.5 with mixed filling. When I play defensive shots (with pips-out technique) I control the ball relatively good, but "loop" strokes and even simple blocks fly very-very high over the net even if they finally land on the table. I think the reason is the high throw of the any ordinal inverted rubber comparing to ox.

I do not care about disruptive effect (in my league everybody already knows how to play against pips) and I do not care much about own spin potential or spin reversal.
I want a new rubber that is very slow, linear and very low throw. I need control in short game, service receive and a bit more dwell time for rolling underspin ball low and short.

It does not have to be anti, but AFAIK some antis are the slowest equipment so far. Long long time ago I played with Butterfly Super Anti, I remember that I disliked pillow feeling of very soft sponge. So I need a rubber with hard direct feeling.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 02:12 
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May be try Gambler Reflectoid?

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 02:47 
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How does Reflectoid differ from Tackiness Chop?

I fear that such kind of rubbers favour "chop and drive", but I luck (counter-)drive in my arsenal.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 03:11 
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Omut wrote:
How does Reflectoid differ from Tackiness Chop?

I fear that such kind of rubbers favour "chop and drive", but I luck (counter-)drive in my arsenal.


Not as spin-sensitive, I think. I'd wait for 'japsican' to chime in though, he has more experience with both, I think.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 04:20 
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I would have suggested reflectoid in 1.0mm and 1.5mm for exactly the style of play you are talking about. In 1.0mm all of the LP style strokes will work because the rubber bottoms out, but it's not exactly the same of course. I very much LOVE 1.0mm and interestingly enough, I just put in another order for it. It's not like other inverted rubbers. Less spin sensitive and very dampening.

It has a soft sponge, but it's different than other soft sponges. It's not the softness, but it's more like a mechanical thing going on in there that controls the speed absorbs it. It's hard to explain in words. In 1.0mm there is less sponge so it's less dampening.

I also like the 1.5mm version of this rubber. But this requires traditional inverted technique and a more horizontal stroke when chopping. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's just different. It's slower for sure, and I had trouble getting penetration with it on the FH. On the BH, no problem, but I have a very wristy whippy backhand.

When I placed the 1.0mm on my forehand my FH chopping consistency when way up. I mean....way up. But it's lighter, so the whole blade felt very light, which is good and bad. Short game doesn't get any better. It's very controlled. Also, because 1.0mm bottoms and is faster, I didn't have any problem with the penetration that I didn't have with the 1.5mm. But looping is far harder with the thinner sponge.

Spins on serves, were the best I've personally ever had, but only in the 1.0mm. I couldn't get quite so spinning using the 1.5, not sure. I did have the 1.5 in Red, so perhaps that was it (the mythical red has less grip than black theory). But everyone was always surprised just how much spin I got on my FH tomahawk with it. I don't have that advantage with my current rubbers.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 04:24 
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Omut wrote:
When I play defensive shots (with pips-out technique) I control the ball relatively good, but "loop" strokes and even simple blocks fly very-very high over the net even if they finally land on the table. I think the reason is the high throw of the any ordinal inverted rubber comparing to ox.

...

I fear that such kind of rubbers favour "chop and drive", but I luck (counter-)drive in my arsenal.

All inverted rubbers will have higher throw than all OX LPs. The reflectoid will be no different in that regard, but the thin 1.0mm sponge will be less so. You will still need to adjust.... unless the inverted rubber is anti, which Reflectoid is certainly not.

Also, what about a 1/2 anti? Like Spinlord sandwind? I think there is just enough grip on this to still drive the ball, but perhaps it's less spin sensitive than reflectoid, which is a tacky rubber. I've never tried it though

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 05:33 
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Thanks a lot! Would investigate equipment opportunities you mentioned.

Funny thing that I decided to try something radically new because I lost in the last tournament against lower rated player with the same Dornenglanz as mine.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 05:50 
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Omut wrote:
Thanks a lot! Would investigate equipment opportunities you mentioned.

Funny thing that I decided to try something radically new because I lost in the last tournament against lower rated player with the same Dornenglanz as mine.


Oh, I know the feeling... :headbang: However, if most of your opponents are not mirror images of yourself, then it's OK to stick with what you have, may be just practice more pips-to-pips play. Tactics and shots are a bit different there, in my experience.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 08:38 
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Omut wrote:
It does not have to be anti, but AFAIK some antis are the slowest equipment so far. Long long time ago I played with Butterfly Super Anti, I remember that I disliked pillow feeling of very soft sponge. So I need a rubber with hard direct feeling.


Sandwind has a soft sponge so you may have the same issue with that. Dr Neubauer Django might work, it's a classic anti but with a somewhat harder sponge than most which gives it some offensive potential. The hardest most direct feeling spin insensitive rubber that I can think of would be Dr Evil (OX short pimple).


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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 22:10 
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pgpg wrote:
Omut wrote:
Thanks a lot! Would investigate equipment opportunities you mentioned.

Funny thing that I decided to try something radically new because I lost in the last tournament against lower rated player with the same Dornenglanz as mine.


Oh, I know the feeling... :headbang: However, if most of your opponents are not mirror images of yourself, then it's OK to stick with what you have, may be just practice more pips-to-pips play. Tactics and shots are a bit different there, in my experience.

I have a problem when opponent do not avoid BH to BH rally but insist on it. I need something on my BH that can close and slow down the game but still can attack some those dead pushes when needed. My DG has limits of controllable force that can be used in this situation.

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 22:22 
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Omut wrote:
pgpg wrote:
Omut wrote:
Thanks a lot! Would investigate equipment opportunities you mentioned.

Funny thing that I decided to try something radically new because I lost in the last tournament against lower rated player with the same Dornenglanz as mine.


Oh, I know the feeling... :headbang: However, if most of your opponents are not mirror images of yourself, then it's OK to stick with what you have, may be just practice more pips-to-pips play. Tactics and shots are a bit different there, in my experience.

I have a problem when opponent do not avoid BH to BH rally but insist on it. I need something on my BH that can close and slow down the game but still can attack some those dead pushes when needed. My DG has limits of controllable force that can be used in this situation.


You obviously know your situation better, but it still feels like a rather radical change. Do you think going back to inverted BH will open up other issues - the styles are just too different...

I presume twiddling is not a good option (it is tough, I'm still avoiding it...).

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PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 00:32 
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Omut wrote:
You obviously know your situation better, but it still feels like a rather radical change. Do you think going back to inverted BH will open up other issues - the styles are just too different...

I presume twiddling is not a good option (it is tough, I'm still avoiding it...).

I think learning how to twiddle is a better option then changing to a radically different style. Although, I just went through this myself. :lol:

Unless there is other motivation to change, like boredom. That was my issue.

I was lucky, twiddling came very natural to me. But I think multiball drills where you twiddle is very helpful. Or pushing contests where you push with inverted, twiddle...then push with pips, twiddle, repeat.. I like doing that because it also trains your brain to change your stroke to keep the ball low, and not just concentrate on the twiddling aspect.

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PostPosted: 16 May 2018, 05:51 
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Well, before twiddling it is worse to spend some time to actually learn to play inverted BH :)

Played with Tackiness Chop and TSP Balsa+ 2.5 second time against a decent allround player who plays against my pips very well. The result is promising.

It is remarkable that my chops near the table become very toxic: the balls drop right after the net with unusual short trajectory.

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PostPosted: 17 May 2018, 09:01 
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Japsican. You say the reflectoid can do all lp strokes. Does this include the chop block?

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PostPosted: 18 May 2018, 00:30 
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An interesting question indeed.Any answers forthcoming?
Bulldog.

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