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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2017, 22:20 
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There are MUCH stronger contact cements than rubber cement or table tennis water based glues. Not difficult to find, either. Anything used to attach Formica or to repair shoes would qualify. Even these are weaker than whatever Butterfly uses to attach topsheets.

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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2017, 22:52 
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I guess the secret to glueing a top-sheet onto the sponge is temperature. I guess you'll need an oven or at least an iron to remove them efficiently.

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2017, 01:25 
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iskandar taib wrote:
There are MUCH stronger contact cements than rubber cement or table tennis water based glues. Not difficult to find, either. Anything used to attach Formica or to repair shoes would qualify. Even these are weaker than whatever Butterfly uses to attach topsheets.

Iskandar


Sure, but the question is....how do those glues react to the sponge and rubber?

Not willing to mess up several top sheets and sponges to figure that out.

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2017, 03:57 
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Red wrote:
I guess the secret to glueing a top-sheet onto the sponge is temperature. I guess you'll need an oven or at least an iron to remove them efficiently.


I don't know what Butterfly uses for adhering topsheets to sponge, there's a video on YouTube about how it's applied (big machine with a wet roller) and how the topsheets and sponges are put together. Yes, I think there's heat involved but I don't think the glue is a thermoplastic, I suspect it cures, i.e. polymerizes when heated. That means it'll take a lot more heat to remove it that they used to cure it in the first place. Someone on this forum posted about "recovering" Tenergy sponge (probably to put a different type of topsheet onto it). He put the rubber in boiling water, and then used tweezers to un-stick the pips one by one. Sounds more than a little tedious!

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iskandar taib wrote:
There are MUCH stronger contact cements than rubber cement or table tennis water based glues. Not difficult to find, either. Anything used to attach Formica or to repair shoes would qualify. Even these are weaker than whatever Butterfly uses to attach topsheets.


Sure, but the question is....how do those glues react to the sponge and rubber?

Not willing to mess up several top sheets and sponges to figure that out.


There's all sorts of cheap sponge and topsheets available for experimentation. And you can always use cutoffs to experiment with (surely you have cutoffs of OX topsheets?). I'd worry a lot more about getting the glue evenly onto the top of the pips, and spread thinly and evenly over the sponge. The sheet-of-glass method should work, I first heard about it from an ex-Chinese national team player who was doing a PhD where I was going to University. His advice (he was a pips-out hitter) was to "find a sheet of sponge you like" and stick with that, changing only the topsheet when needed. Apparently back when he was playing seriously (2nd tier national team) sponge must've been really inconsistent. Had a bunch of sponge and topsheets for sale, too..

Table tennis glues are MEANT to be weak, the bond is meant to be impermanent. Even rubber cement was designed so that people doing magazine layups could move bits of paper around on a layup sheet, which is why it works for gluing table tennis rubbers onto blades. You definitely DON'T want to use even yellow tube UHU for that!

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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 02:45 
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http://www.eacheng.net/Super-729-FX-Lar ... 10835.html

729 FX Super, newly developed Large Pores Sponge now available 1.0mm thick.


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PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 04:38 
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iskandar taib wrote:
It'll never work man. Not with the glues we use for attaching rubber, anyway. The glue they use at the factory to attach toosheets is something a great deal stronger than anything we use. Try separating a Sriver topsheet from the sponge, you'll end up destroying the sponge or pulling the pips off the topsheet. If you can't get this sort of bond then you have a sub-optimal setup. If you really do want to do this I'd suggest using the type of contact cement they use for formica countertops rather than anything they sell for use in table tennis.

Iskandar


FOOL'S JOB ....



Making Buterfly Ekrips rubber.

https://youtu.be/SozRZAxg6vk?t=562

It looks they heat up the bunch of rubbers and then apply some pressure to glue sponge and rubber together.
Certainly, you need a heating machine, or you cant get the bonding strong enough.

Yes, gluing rubber with some hardware adhesives is a futile job. Nowdays, nobody would do the gluing job at home. Fool's job, indeed.


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 02:29 
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So after all this discussion.. what happened with the experiments?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 15:26 
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Take a look at the Sauer & Tröger Secret Flow in 1.0. That's on top of my list of new rubbers to experiment with once I get past the tests I currently have lined up.

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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 15:44 
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I used to use a 1.1 tackiness c on a Defplay and it was OK for f/h topspin,improved after boosting (high flex blade helps ),very high control and could land the ball almost anywhere at will with consistancy, I doubt that this would be viable with plastic balls being harder/heavier feel and will meet the wood too soon losing spin and control

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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 16:32 
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PimplePark Epos is available in 1.0mm.

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PostPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 02:19 
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Blade: Donic Alligator combi
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BH: Butterfly FL2 0,5mm
Spinlord Marder 1,0 mm
Friendship 729 higher chop 1,2 mm
Friendship 729 origin soft 1,0 mm
Palio Amigo 1,0mm

You can call www.ttde.de in germany . They have all of the above mentioned rubbers incl Reflectoid 1,5mm

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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2018, 02:36 
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iskandar taib wrote:
So after all this discussion.. what happened with the experiments?

Iskandar

You can see there was a year and a half between Igors first post, and the last post of thread prior to that.

But the long and short of it was that I never found what I was looking for. Closest I found was actually what igorponger suggested with the blue sponge (1.5 years too late :lol: ), but when I bought it the supplier told me he only had it in 1.5mm, even though the ad clearly says 1.0mm is a choice. He also said he would never be stocking 1.0mm. I wanted large pimple geometry and/or spring sponge but in thin sponge. That rubber kind of fit the bill. Played well, but I didn't love the 729 top sheet.

I have migrated back to 2.0mm and I play a lot more double inverted now, so I am not really as interested in thin sponge. I have a double inverted defplay with 1.0mm and/or 1.5mm reflectoid which is the best option for playing defense. But now, if I play double inverted I prefer to attack and do some tactical blocking, so the 1.0mm isn't really necessary.

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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2018, 02:40 
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brokkie wrote:
Spinlord Marder 1,0 mm
Friendship 729 higher chop 1,2 mm
Friendship 729 origin soft 1,0 mm

None of those have a modern sponge... or feel. The marder was the worst one.

Imagine Tenergy or Xiom Omega V in 1.0mm. That's what I was looking for!

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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2018, 13:31 
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So you never tried the booster on the Reflectoid? I was wondering how that would work.

The 729 Super FX with large pores has actually been around for about 3 years, despite what Igor says (Eacheng started selling it very soon after I started paying again and posting here). I bought a pair of sheets (max sponge) back then, I felt it was very bouncy (pushes tended to pop up more than anything). I felt it lacked control, I even tried it Seamooned, didn't improve it. But in 1.5mm or 1mm it might've been OK for chopping. I still have a sheet left, maybe I should try it on a M8, it being slower than the N11 I was using at the time. Maybe that might tame it. I suspect this isn't an official 729/Friendship product, it's something that sneaked out the back door of the factory. It's certainly not sold in any sort of retail packaging. The sponge may or may not be 729's - might've been an experimental batch, or it might be something they use on some other more expensive rubber (maybe Battle). It sort of resembles the sponge that comes with KTL's Green Dragon, though the color is different (but that's a really slow rubber). Initially it was only available in Max, now it's available in thinner sponge.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2018, 14:44 
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Hallmark Power Spin 1 mm rubber is of good quality.


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