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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2018, 02:00 
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Blade: Xiom Hayabusa Z+ FL
FH: Victas V-15 Stiff Bl Max
BH: SpinLord Keiler Red 1.8
ClausTrophobie wrote:
As I wrote in the Waran thread:
The boss from spinlord confirmed on the german forum noppen-test.de, that the waran sponge has only changed in colour.

Greetings Claus


Well, the Keiler sponge plays different, regardless of the color. I'm comparing old, 3-4 year old sponges to new sponges, so there is bound to be differences. In this case the older sponges are more dynamic, except for a couple of sheets I have used the most, where the sponge has pretty well past its prime. Its the new one acts less like a boosted sponge. Maybe it just needs to be broken in?

I'm going to continue to play with it this week, and will probably load the thicker (1.8 mm) sheet on for play next week on another blade. Then compare them to the older sheet on my third blade. This should give me a better idea of any changes from my earlier sheets.

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Xiom Hayabusa Z+; Victas V-15 Stiff (Black) Max; Keiler (Red) 1.8 mm, or Do Knuckle (Red) 1.5 mm


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2019, 03:51 
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Have you been able to evaluate further the new dark orange sponge Keiler and compare it against your new 1.8mm sheet . I reckon the 1.8mm being early to mid 2018 manufacture will probably play more like the original softer yellow sponge Keiler.
.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2019, 03:26 
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Blade: Xiom Hayabusa Z+ FL
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BH: SpinLord Keiler Red 1.8
ChasFox wrote:
Have you been able to evaluate further the new dark orange sponge Keiler and compare it against your new 1.8mm sheet . I reckon the 1.8mm being early to mid 2018 manufacture will probably play more like the original softer yellow sponge Keiler.
.


Yes, just last night I put the 1.8 MM sheet on, and it does indeed play like the original Keiler. Felt fantastic compared to the latest sheet.

Now the question becomes, are the current sheets the new normal, or are they outliers? Maybe they received a batch that isn't boosted, or tensioned? If so maybe the next shipments will return to the original feel.

The good news is it is cheep enough that ordering another sheet won't break the bank. I think I'll wait a few months and try another sheet. Meanwhile, I have a sheet or Orkan II and Do Knuckle that I can play with as an experiment on my backup blades.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2019, 07:45 
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Thanks for confirming my suspicions about the dark orange sponge being rogue. Apparently it has also appeared on latest stock if Waran!

After four sessions I am giving up on my trial of Orkan as just found it a bit harmless. Nothing like the disruption capability of Keiler, slower but too bouncy on pushing and not much spin. Will glue back on an old sheet of Keiler 1.2mm or 1.5mm for time being. Orkan 2 has a different sponge so may play quite differently.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 00:57 
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Just tried out an as new sheet of Keiler black 2mm with the latest dark orange sponge. Completely dead and I could just not hit the ball hard enough for winners on BH. Definitely not tensioned like the original sponge which would have created rockets in 2mm. Also no disruption/sink and not much spin as sponge no longer soft enough to grip the ball.

Search for a Keiler replacement goes on.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 18:10 
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Yesterday I played a tournament, using Keller on bh the first two matches. I felt a bit lack of power so I switched to a bit faster blade with ORKan for the last match.
As I won the first 2 matches I wanted to t try a bit more power play for the last match.The next 4 matches I won easily 3:0 or 3:1 against slightly better player. I dominated them with the ORKan on the by diagonal and then finished with forehand. Close to no easy mistakes with ORKan. I am willing to treat in disturbance factor with Keiler vs. Pressure and consistency with ORKan. But it only works if you are willing to take the initiative.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 19:35 
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[quote="basaltero"]Yesterday I played a tournament, using Keller on bh the first two matches. I felt a bit lack of power so I switched to a bit faster blade with ORKan for the last match.

I found the original Keiler with yellow sponge faster than Orkan, did your sheet of keiler have a dark orange sponge? What thickness and colour Orkan are you using?


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 22:23 
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Did you attack at all with the ORKan or did you use the ORKan to set up your forehand? When I tried it out, I also really liked the control of the ORKan and how easy it was to block balls short against attacks. But on my attacks, I found that they were not very effective. If you are using the ORKan to set up your forehand, I can see that working very well. I may have to revisit this idea, and just get more active with using my forehand to kill more balls and rely on backhand attacks less.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 03:57 
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I do both. Usually I open the game with a wristy low Top spin on opponent backhand diagonal and I try to play the following points diagonal with short but fast pushes. When I see the possibility I push longline or jump around and hammer it into the ground with my forehand. ORKan can be a finisher, but you need a fast and stiffer blade.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 04:01 
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BH: SpinLord Keiler Red 1.8
ChasFox wrote:
Just tried out an as new sheet of Keiler black 2mm with the latest dark orange sponge. Completely dead and I could just not hit the ball hard enough for winners on BH. Definitely not tensioned like the original sponge which would have created rockets in 2mm. Also no disruption/sink and not much spin as sponge no longer soft enough to grip the ball.

Search for a Keiler replacement goes on.


Same here, identical results with the latest Keiler. ;(

I've been using Power Pipes, with mixed results. The thing I have to remember is that it reverses heavy spin more than I'm used to, so attacking spinny loops is...difficult, as the spin reverses and it tends to float. On the plus side it reverses heavy spin on pushes also, and chop blocks better than Keiler.

After my next tournaments I'll be trying out Dr Newbauer's Explosion short pips. I've hit with them a couple of times and they look promising. They give up some of Keiler's abilities, but retain the speed and abilities to produce dead balls.

Good luck with your search, and keep us updated on how it's going.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 04:19 
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I'm beginning to wonder if it is possible to order a Keiler topsheet and put it on a custom sponge, the question is which sponge will be closest to the feel of the original yellow sponge?

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2019, 06:02 
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Played tonight with an old sheet of 1.5mm Keiler on my Dr Neubauer Bloodhound blade. On a hard stiff medium speed blade like the Bloodhound blade, Keiler in 1.5mm is just about perfect for counter hitting topspin with a stiff wrist. as balls dip just enough to stay on the table but are still hard to loop. Then if required you can use a wristy stroke to create a slower ball with topspin. Also hitting through backspin is really easy. Only real weakness is in the defensive game e.g chopping.

I think too many if the new highly disruptive pips out rubbers lose control and lack the ability to create topspin when needed.

I might try Armstrong attack 3. Which is like Keiler half way between a short and medium pip with some disruptive ability.

PS. Sheet of Sauer & Troga Hipster 1.5mm black on order which I hope will have a similar balance of playability and disruptive effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2019, 04:39 
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I just posted this in the Power Pipes topic, and thought I would post it here also.

I just finished playing 3 tournaments with Power Pipes, and next up are Do Knuckle (again) and Explosion. Power Pipes is interesting to play with, like a cross between anti and pips. Sometimes I receive a heavy loop to my backhand and play a shot like I would with Keiler...the ball reverses and just floats off the table. Of course this is my fault not the rubbers, I used the wrong technique and paid for it. Had some interesting wins against players with 200-250 point higher USATT ratings. They had problems with the changes in spin with the PP. On the other hand I struggled more with lower rated opponents who give me less spin and a lot of strokes that look like they should have spin. I found those balls more difficult to attack strongly with PP, with Keiler these would have been easily attacked. With PP I was more careful not to send the ball long. I've done better in the last 2 tourneys than I did in the first one, so I am learning to use them effectively.

PP is a mixed bag for me, and while I realize I'm still adjusting to the change, I think I'm going to try Do Knuckle again for a bit along with giving Explosion a try. I'm in a lull in between tournaments, so I have some time to experiment for a bit. When you change to PP be sure to give yourself some time to adapt, they are not exactly a plug and play replacement for Keiler, but can be made to work if you stick with them. As a side note I had more problems with PP playing doubles than singles, which I found interesting.

I still miss the old yellow sponged Keiler. :'(

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2019, 23:02 
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Interesting that you also found Power Pipes had some anti playing characteristics, as BJ20 mentioned the same in the KO Pro thread as did the Geblock TT review which mentioned the same.

Perhaps power pipes will need a bit too much craft than I have, so I will be interested to hear your further thoughts on do knuckle and explosion. The playing characteristics of the latter like Keiler is probably very sponge thickness influenced. Do buckle is supposed to be more of a versatile defensive medium pip whilst explosion with it's shorter pips is more block and hit.

I don't hold up much hope re getting Keiler back with the old yellow sponge and my local stockist mentioned that most Keiler users were switching to Orkan, but it did nothing for me somewhat springy imprecise feel.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Keiler
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2019, 02:31 
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I would like to know the same about Explosion and Do Knuckle.

Maybe someone that knows the difference between Nittaku Do Knuckle and Nittaku Super Do Knuckle ?
How do these pips play, what are the characteristics ? Deception, speed, pip structure, soft or hard pips, fast or slow, allround / off / def , ....
How do they compare to power pipes and other pips ?
Always myself play sponge 1.5
Or do I have to make a new topic on the board for the difference between Super or normal Do Knuckle ?
Because there is little information about Super Do Knuckle and Normal Do Knuckle on ooak forum or other places.


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