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PostPosted: 01 May 2019, 06:29 
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I’m a bit unsure if this is posted in correct category in the forum so feel free to move it.

I picked up LP about two months ago and it’s been great. I’ve beaten several players that I could only dream about beating with inverted. I use Dtecs 0.5mm on my backhand and I usually train in a club where most players are division 4 - 2 in Sweden (which I guess is equivalent to USATT 2100+).

My issue is quite simple: receiving extremely hard and low no spin serves. I understand that twiddling or stepping around with FH is the way to go but the serves are simply too fast. What would be the best stroke with Dtecs to return the serves so that they just don’t loop kill the return? LP attack? Some kind of chop (isn’t working that great right now).


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PostPosted: 01 May 2019, 11:30 
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Do they bounce twice if you try to receive it off of the table? If the ball comes long enough to receive it off the end of the table, I mean, maybe you can try attacking with Dtecs. Maybe you can see if standing a bit farther away from the table will give you more time to twiddle and possible do a heavy push or a backhand flick/banana flip/loop, etc? You could also try like a pseudo chop block where you receive it at the highest point when it comes to you and do a straight push with an angle perpendicular to the table surface, maybe add some sidespin to it. I also understand your issue with speed, footwork is something us amateurs could always work on tbh

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PostPosted: 01 May 2019, 20:18 
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If it's really fast, I would either take it early and try to block it back into their body, or take a step back and chop it back deep. Dtecs has quite low grip, making attacks quite hard (although some people can do it).

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PostPosted: 02 May 2019, 03:31 
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That's the basic tactic against LP OX, so you have to develop an answer for it or forfeit those points!

What I like to do is chop-punch it back rather fast to their weaker side, or into the playing elbow. I say that as a chopper though, so I am wanting them to loop the ball back to me but not kill it. I try to place it to where they feel comfortable looping, but rarely scoring a direct winner from the shot. Then I chop it back and go from there. You have to make sure the first push return is long, close to the white line so you have time to setup.

If you are blocking with the LP, then playing stronger angles might work better for you. I hit it far off down one of the corners, so they will more than likely return it to the opposite corner, where I block that loop. With grippier LP, I was able to smack those balls back with weak top spin. Can't do that too well with d.tecs for the most part.

This is probably what happens to you: https://youtu.be/DyFHh73i2yE?t=255 (bad return, loop killed)

And this is more of what you want: https://youtu.be/DyFHh73i2yE?t=331 (low return block to the corner, expects the loop and reblocks)

What you don't want... https://youtu.be/DyFHh73i2yE?t=485

What you might hope for: https://youtu.be/DyFHh73i2yE?t=540

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PostPosted: 02 May 2019, 05:24 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
My issue is quite simple: receiving extremely hard and low no spin serves. I understand that twiddling or stepping around with FH is the way to go but the serves are simply too fast. What would be the best stroke with Dtecs to return the serves so that they just don’t loop kill the return? LP attack? Some kind of chop (isn’t working that great right now).

I have played with Dtecs 0.5 a lot. With fast serves to my BH the only solution for me is to step back and chop the return. Any other working return is difficult to do - blocking etc. tends to pop the ball up. :sweat:


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PostPosted: 02 May 2019, 06:16 
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I agree with Haggisv and Roy. You probably need a good, consistent chop anyway. A fast "no spin" serve will usually pick up some forward roll from the bounces, so even with a low grip LP you should be able to return with considerable underspin. You say the chop isn't working well at the moment. Keep practicing! Remember to be patient. Against a fast serve you may be rushed and strike early. Let the ball come to you.

If you find that you can make a consistent block, put the pressure on with an early block "to the pocket" (aka "playing elbow"). This gives your opponent less opportunity to attack. (It also gives you less time.) With a chop block you can use the exact same movement, and use blade angle to vary speed. I don't know how it works with Dtecs, but had a working chop block using CK531a when I played LP.

You can also use a fake slow loop for variation. As long as you don't overuse it, many opponents will misread the spin and return in the net. I wouldn't put too much effort into this until you have the chop (and perhaps also the block) covered.


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PostPosted: 02 May 2019, 18:35 
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Yesterday I tried to "chop punch" the ball and the return is quite ok but still quite weak. I will experienment with stepping back and chopping tonight but I think that my footwork will be the limiting factor here.

Hitting (i.e. countering / driving) with Dtecs 0.5TB is quite fun (and fairly reliable) if the incoming ball has enough topspin (which these serves don't have). I've discarded this as a solution for receiving these type of serves.

Blocking is extremely hard. I guess that my timing is way off. The result when trying this is either the ball going deep into the net or floating 0.5m outside of the table.

Thanks for all of the advice!


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PostPosted: 02 May 2019, 19:36 
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Serving long and with no spin is a tactic that is teached "how to win from long pips".

What I do is place the ball long and quick on his elbow with a forward stroke and low angle off the bat.
What I also do is turn the bat just as he throws the ball (so he won't notice it) and attack the ball.
This will make sure he needs to change his serve ...... the downside is they could serve on the other side after you turned you bat.
I alway have trouble then because I had a different mindset (still need to make more hours with long pips).

With de Dtecs 0.5 you might even make an attack stroke?

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PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 00:28 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
Yesterday I tried to "chop punch" the ball and the return is quite ok but still quite weak. I will experienment with stepping back and chopping tonight but I think that my footwork will be the limiting factor here.

Hitting (i.e. countering / driving) with Dtecs 0.5TB is quite fun (and fairly reliable) if the incoming ball has enough topspin (which these serves don't have). I've discarded this as a solution for receiving these type of serves.

Blocking is extremely hard. I guess that my timing is way off. The result when trying this is either the ball going deep into the net or floating 0.5m outside of the table.

Thanks for all of the advice!


If you haven't used slick lp before, those strokes can be hard. You saw in the videos I posted, even pushblocker (who has been playing the same style for years and years...) makes mistakes against the long no spin ball. So it's not something you can try once or twice and say oops, doesnt work!

If they do a dead half long serve you will face the same issue. For those that want to play the slick lp game, you just have to practice and learn to deal with the dead ball or... you're dead! Try to vary your angle when punch blocking and your bat speed. Some people like to go slightly up and over the ball like a weak top spin. Others like to open the angle and hit more down into the ball like a weak push. But with d.tecs I dknt 5hink you can vary the spin much at all, so you need to be hitting more solidly into it rather than trying to brush.

You can brush but I feel that one takes a much finer touch and more practice, since it will probably lead to more pop ups.

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PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 04:15 
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Just to weigh in here I find that I tend to chopblock these almost off the bounce back to the BH side to give the best length of table to keep them on. They go back with speed and low over the net and don't give a lot of time for them to go on a heavy attack. Often it will result in them popping the ball up even, and if that happens to stray to my fh its often a clean kill. It all depends on how well the opponent positions and reacts to what you give them back. Of course you can never be too predictable in this game so I'll always try to take the length and sting out of the ball and go the the fh for variation, but its risky because its hard to keep low and short going that way. The plus side though is even if you go a bit deep and high to fh, its usually with awkward or no spin and often results in an attack that goes long of the table. Of course the best you can hope for in your return of this serve is the netclip that just drops over...which happens a bit when you aim low all the time :devil:

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PostPosted: 03 May 2019, 06:50 
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I thank you all for the wise words. I understand that it will take a long time to master the strokes and to figure out what works and what doesn’t but I have a tournament this coming weekend so I’m somewhat desperate :D

I had a friend feeding me no spin serves for an hour tonight and chops worked quite ok when I fully committed. One thing that worked really well was a traditional “inverted” BH flip/flick when the serve was a bit weak but that won’t happen too often in real games.

I do have access to an extremely skilled coach in our club (he used to work at WSA in Austria) and I will discuss this with him next week. I have a multiball session scheduled for next week so I guess that this will be the main focus as he’s seen me loose quite badly to some of the guys. We’ve recently mainly been focusing on chop vs loop and countering loops with the LP.


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