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 Post subject: Wood types in blades
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2008, 16:18 
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Dark Knight
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I started collecting information on wood types a while back, because Iw as interested in what the different plies of a blade were made off, and wanted to be able to identify them...

I posted in a few places, and also collected some information from a few websites, which are posted below. I got side tracked and lost a bit of interest when I realised how big the subject is... But I figured if there is anough interest here, we can compile a list of woods used in blade, with a brief description and a picture, and even a list of blades that use it... I can then compile it all on a few web pages for all to see and use it as a reference...

Anyone interested? If so reply here and we'll get the ball rolling, and can all collect some info and pics on a few types of wood.

Below is what I have already... some of you mey recognise you own writing :lol: !


Quote:
Cypress- good, cheap and readily available. Tends to work best with woods similar to itself in playing quality such as ayous, ash and varieties of pine. Smells nice, though the mythical Kiso Hinoki variety is both rare and extremely valuable.

Ayous- soft, tends to tear easily in thinner plys. Mainly an outermost ply wood. Pairs up well with many woods.

Balsa- soft, porous and extremely light. Readily available but not usually in widths required for blades, so gluing will most likely be required. Useful only as core and in rare cases second plys due to its fragility. Deteriorates very quickly unless sealed.

Walnut (any variety)- outer ply material, hard and expensive. Pairs up well with a soft core.

Movinge- also outer ply material, hard and expensive. Pairs up well with a soft core.

Poplar- readily available, capable as a core wood and as an outer ply providing skill in matching thicknesses up.

Ash- Cross between Cypress and Ayous, needs hide glue to fully bring out the playing characterstics.


Yellow Aningre Wood: Yellow Aningre is the ultimate control wood. Providing a soft feel on contact, this wood is favored by many all-round styles of players.
Grubba Pro blades use Yellow Aningre Wood for the outer and secondary plies.
There was a previous thread that was a little similar to this here
about BTY's description of woods.
Just looking at my blade, I look to have a balsa centre - 1 thick ply, two plys of carbon and two plys of what I presume is aningre wood. Well its a very yellow wood so thats what I presume it is.


Mahogany,Walnut, Koto, bamboo, Kiri /Pauwlonia( spelling?),Maple, Birch, Paduak


Abachi, Ayous, Samba, Obeche are all the same species. They are from different parts of Africa though.


I believe the violin outer plies are ash, or so I've been told. I believe bass is a harder wood, but still used in lower end allaround blades. I've heard mohagany is soft, but it seems like a hard wood to me. I was just told of tung used as inner plies for the instinct blades. I think ttman's custom borko's used some form of african rosewood whatever that is.

Balsa has the distinction of being very light and very soft, although it also makes the blade stiff...or maybe that's just because it's often used thick because you can do that without jacking up the weight. It's also very fragile though. If you buy a thick balsa blade you absolutely must epoxy the outer edge or it will completely crumble away on you.

Limba and ayous seem very similar. They both are soft and have heavy grains. Typically the limba blades are a bit more expensive, so you'll find them more commonly in the japanese and euro blades and the ayous more in the chinese, although there are exceptions. From my experience limba grains are a bit tighter and don't shed as badly. As a result I think it's just a touch harder. Both should be sealed before gluing, but ayous MUST be sealed or it WILL strip off with the rubber.

Hinoki is considered the "golden" wood of blades. Hinoki is a form of cypress, and I believe much of the hinoki used just as outer plies is really cypress. Hinoki is called "false cypress." I've read a history where during WWII the japanese sent crates to china made with hinoki. (Apparently not as rare back then.) Some folks tried cutting it into a one ply blade and the rest was history. Hinoki has the property of being very soft with a nice soft touch in short, but very fast when hitting. The biggest drawback is probably weight. Well, and now it's scarcity and cost.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2008, 17:09 
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I am Legend
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sounds like fun. I'll provide some photos of wood.

Hopefully nobody here is still on dialup :P

Cypress/Hinoki
ImageImage
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Limba
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Limba Side view (top and second layer)
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Ayous
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Bass
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Koto
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White Ash?
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Juniper
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Balsa (CORES)
ImageImage
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Black Fineline
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Carbon/Aramid
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???
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Balsa/Ayous MCD
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Carbon (Joola)
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Meloriate Carbon
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Texalium
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Fichte
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Carbon (Yasaka)
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CR Coating
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Optimum Crystal Coating
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???
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???
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Last edited by Silver on 24 Jul 2008, 17:19, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2008, 17:16 
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Dark Knight
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Great stuff Silver!

Only 3 of the pics seem to load for me... not sure if it's the syntax or a limit on size perhaps?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2008, 23:03 
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Some info from butterflyonline.com:

WOOD TYPE CHARACTERISTICS

Arylate
Arylate is a reinforcing fiber used to expand the sweet spot of the blade and also to provide unsurpassed vibration control.

Arylate/Carbon
These blades feature the best of both the Carbon and Arylate benefits. The speed and large sweet spot of Carbon combined with the great vibration control and soft feel of Arylate. Perhaps the ultimate in blade technology.

Carbon
Carbon reinforced blades produce great speed along with expanded sweet spots. While fast, the bigger sweet spot provides for a shocking level of control.

Ayous Wood
A lightweight, stiff wood that is excellent for close-to-the-table counterdrive play.

Koto Wood
Koto wood outer layers produce a faster and stiffer blade. Great wood for players who rely on both looping and countering techniques.

Bass Wood
Bass wood has been a mainstay in racket making for over fifty years due to its high degree of control and economical price. It is favored by the close-to-the-table counterdriver as well as players looking to purchase their first professional racket.

Limba Wood
The classic European topspin wood. Limba wood adds the soft feel and great control needed by today's modern topspin players.

Cypress Wood
The classic Asian attacking wood. Favored by attackers for several decades because of its unique combination of speed and softness. Also known as Hinoki Wood.

Planchonello Wood
Planchonello outer layers produce great speed. This wood is most often found in blades designed for the power attacker.

Yellow Aningre Wood
Yellow Aningre is the ultimate control wood. Providing a soft feel on contact, this wood is favored by many all-round styles of players.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2008, 23:51 
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haggisv wrote:
Great stuff Silver!

Only 3 of the pics seem to load for me... not sure if it's the syntax or a limit on size perhaps?


I think I was mucking around with the photo permissions...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 00:08 
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An interesting thread. I think Silver's huge bucket of photos needs him to go through and identify every layer of wood in every blade pic as to what it is. :P Otherwise they are just pics of blades. I know there is a few titles, but I'm not sure what they refer to.. blade name or main wood.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 00:43 
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If you're referring to the titles on the pics up there ^^, the title refers to the surface ply.

There is a couple that refers to the 2nd ply, one that refers to the core and the composite ones, crystal and cr ones are pretty self explanatory.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 00:50 
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I wish some of these manufacturers would specify the wood and properties of their blades better. If I want a stiff blade with a hard surface good for pips-out, sometimes there's no way to know without doing a lot of research.

Tibhar is one of the worst. Their description of the Samsonov Alpha promises "a combination of precious plywood with its extra strong middle layer guarantees a better ball resilience with more control. Ideal for controlled, spin orientated attacking game with a lot of pressure."

What is precious plywood?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Jul 2008, 07:52 
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Hmm, niiiice pics...

Should I start looking for a certain combination of plies after seeing all that? :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2008, 12:04 
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I have been making blades out of various types of wood for
about 5 years now.

I have some info on some woods I have used at
www.americanHinoki.com under wood->wood Info
They are mostly in the Cypress family.

You can also see some "different" blades under the
prototype section. I have just finished making some
thin blades out of some very dense African wood
that shows promise. Unfortunatly I don't have a pic up yet.

Has anyone used thin blade made from a dense wood ?

If so please share you thoughts.

Thanks

Kevin

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2008, 21:10 
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Dark Knight
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I've started compiling the information on my website here:
Table tennis blade wood types

Hopefully we can continue adding to it as we identify new blades.

Do you think it's worth including a list of all the blades that have the particular wood type in each section?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2008, 21:42 
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haggisv


I think it would be a good idea. A lot of work however
to list blades made of specific wood, at least the more
common woods.

I am always experimenting with different woods and
always try to get feedback/reviews on the wood from
customers. You are welcome to use this info.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2008, 22:44 
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tThe only blade I know with Planchonello outer ply is Mazunov

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2008, 08:01 
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Dark Knight
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ahinoki wrote:
haggisv


I think it would be a good idea. A lot of work however
to list blades made of specific wood, at least the more
common woods.

I am always experimenting with different woods and
always try to get feedback/reviews on the wood from
customers. You are welcome to use this info.


Thank you ahinoki! I have seen the very good feedback
from you customers. The feedback refers mainly to the
complete blade though, not so much to the actual wood...

Thank you kindly for the offer though!

I agree it will be a lot of work, but the beauty of a forum
is that if we all contribute a few pieces of information,
it can add up to a great resource when combined :wink:

vali: Cheers I'll add that when I add the page on Planchonello!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2008, 11:02 
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I think Silver often confuse Koto vs. Ayous, for example we know that Avalox P500 is Koto top-ply, but Silver put it as Ayous.

I believe Keyshot Light is Koto also, but I might be wrong on this.


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