OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I wanted some advice on one of my serves
I can toss the ball in the air as high as I like!!! AND hit the ball at what seems to be an awkward position!

With my right hand nearest to the table and hit with the bat nearly horizontal but with a slight slant downwards
When I hit the ball, I put a *lot* of backspin on

See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4zcZW9R ... re=related
In the very first few seconds she tosses the ball really high
Now imagine I'm facing the opposite way and hitting standing from the right hand side

Does that make any sense??
I couldn't find any exact same examples

Now, the thing is, I thought, the higher I throw the ball, the more downward force I have!!
So, therefore the more backspin I get!!

Most players: I confuse the heck out of them and they *really* struggle (even after trying to hit back the same serve on many occasions!)

Experienced players: they'll give a long yawn before hitting back
Some of them have advised me not to waste my energy tossing so high if what I want to do is put spin on
They've also said that there's is actually no spin on the ball!

No spin on the ball? That makes no sense to me! The problem is each time I make the serve, I can't do it the same consistently each time - sometimes I 'think' I put an immense amount of spin on while other times not so

Should I bother throwing up so high? It's actually quite a hard serve IMHO!

Any advice would be great

Thanks


OM

It would probably be more useful if you could post a clip of yourself serving but here are a few things to think about:

- many players (many!) get ahead of themselves. They jump right in and copy the service actions of top players but skip the most important first step...you have to be able to get spin on the ball! Simply throwing the ball high will no produce any spin if your swing is too slow and/or your contact is too thick. Also, I would hazard to guess that the top players are correct when they say your serves have no spin - they should know what they are talking about.

- for a while try simplifying your serves and concentrate solely on producing a lot of spin. get a bucket of balls and practice them. Focus on fast and fine contact, generous backswing, good use of wrist, very relaxed arm and wrist. Once you can produce A LOT of spin then work on control and length. Once you have that down pat then (and only then!) experiment with high toss and deception.

Hope this helps.

helps a lot. i'll post a video of my serve. advice 100% taken about not getting ahead of myself too much.

I have not seen the video but I can give advise on how to take advantage of a high toss ( for toss of around 3 feet high ). You can vary the height of contact with your bat once it's going down. You can hit the ball earlier and surprise your opponent. Of course you should be able to master spin and control as advise by carbonman.

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Oh. It's my girly-but-surprisingly-effective-against-top-players serve. You've kinda nailed it in that the higher you throw, the more momentum the ball will have and thus you can potentially hit with more spin, but it all comes down to how thick a contact you make with the ball, and WHERE on the surface you're hitting the ball.

Watch a bit of Samsonov and Mizutani for truly miraculous serves.

Btw: thanks for that vid, I almost forgot how disgusting Fukuhara's backhand is. *shudderd*

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Yes, throwing the ball high will not get you all the spin that you want. Its the contact you make with the ball and where it makes contact with the rubber. I find that I get most spin hitting on the very edge of my racket, but it also depends on the speed that you strike the ball.

As for consistency, just keep practicing! Identify any errors or things that make you serves inconsistent (high throw for example) I think the serve that your talking about might be very similar to Werner Schlager's, he throws it high up makes contact with the ball with a horizontal bat angle, sometimes even past the horizontal angle.

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thanks for the replies. i looked up schlager's videos. i can't see any serve that looks like my serve

imagine u are right handed and HAVE the play with the right hand nearest to the table edge
how would u have to hit the ball...? that's the position i hit my serves with
erm... don't worry... i'll post a video soon

EDIT: see this serve by ma lin:

now imagine making that awesome serve even harder by him being turned 180 degrees and he has to hit with the same side!
that's by serve
that video has given me hope actually - i know it's possible to get amazing spin on the ball!

Wait, so do you hit the ball with your forehand side or backhand side? It would be very difficult doing a serve like that on the other side of your body.

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well,i hit with the forehand - but with my hand facing upwards

i'm sure i didn't invent the serve. i'm sure i saw it somewhere else and copied

the difference with me is that i chuck it 10m in the air before hitting! (ok, if the ceiling was 10m high, i could do it - but we do have a pretty high ceiling)

ok, no need for video. i've just wasted 10 min making a drawing
see this image:




that isn't me bye the way - it's just a drawing
lol

I remember seeing quite a bit of discussion on this serve. Most seemed to beleive that the opponent actually made slight contact with the ball to make it go back like that.

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You're going to have to post a video for this to make sense.

And don't take it too much to heart that spin serves like that are possible because Ma Lin can do it. He is one of the best servers ever.

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ok. i played tonight and recorded video.
see below:



u can't see it so clearly, but i throw the ball as high as the ceiling - which thinking about it now, must be at least 10m high - i could throw higher and still hit it if i had the height! i stand 180 degrees to how you would normally stand to serve
u see me doing this twice

i'm working on controlling the variations - right now i put loooads of back spin on (ok - i think i put looads of back spin on!)
2 serves can be very different! sometimes they're super fast and have little spin while other times the ball floats on the air and has looads of spin on

see my original comments - looking for feedback
after seeing ma lin's awesome serve, i know chucking an amazing height up and hitting can do 'something' if controlled

Sorry but it is too unclear to make a call.

ok... i'll maybe try and make a more clear video - that was shot on my mobile phone

my original question (or at least, this is what i was trying to ask!):

is it worth me chucking so high - do i get the benefit of the downward force?
i can hit the ball no matter how high i throw + i can now swing and hit the ball putting more spin on

thanks!

It is tuff to make a call without actually seeing you (clearly ) serve but my guess is that if you are in the beginner-intermediate stage throwing it so high will probably result in you getting less spin. The reason being is that to get a lot of spin you need to learn to co-ordinate several factors - fine-contact, fast bat movement, timing, loose arm/wrist etc - and adding a high toss is only going to complicate this learning process.

Whilst I haven't seen any scientific proof of this, it is theorized that a high toss can add spin to the ball because the ball is travelling a little quicker when it contacts the bat. Even if this were the case the amount of extra spin it would generate would be insignificant IMO. You can generate a hell of a lot of spin without a high toss. There are other positives for high-toss serves of course.