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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 03:48 
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I play a slow defensive blade and have been using CTT national Pogo OX. Previously, I have been playing an all round block/chop block/ chopping game but am now moving towards a more chopping type game. I play back from the table but not very far at all. My question is, is there a better rubber for chopping thats a long pip. What makes a long pip good for chopping? What about sponge? Do i need a sponge, will it help, and what exactly does the sponge do in regards to helping me chop?

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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 13:47 
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Hey, jrod:

I've asked the same question before and I've done the research (here on ooak and live with a blade)...nothing beats long pips. You basically have three/four choices for your bh: thin inverted, short pips, med.pips, and long pips. Because your bh anatomy is not as strong as your fh, the longer the pip, the easier it is to chop the ball with the blade face facing the ceiling and parallel to the table. The taller long pips grab the ball better and make chopping, at least for me, easier and easier in my book is better and more effective. Inverted and short pips are fine for the fh side because I assume most people have stronger muscles to really dig into the ball consistently for a solid chop. Also if you use inverted, there is a tendency to throw the chop upwards, that is, its harder to keep the ball low which is what I like to do with my lp side. This happens for me as well if you add sponge to the lp side (i prefer ox) which makes the lp throw the ball up if you chop.

I could go on but let me throw it back at you: get a sp and try chopping with it. You'll realize that it is waaaaay harder to chop with short pips under all conditions. Inverted is even harder. For anti, I've only used 804 which is not a true anti but I've read that btf antis play slower than pips but because they are smooth and have sponge, there going to throw up :puke:

edit: whoops...misread your question. I've only used 755 ox for the last 4 years straight, plus experimented with feint 2, feint ox, 388 d-1, tsp p1r, feint soft, dh c-7, 837, pailo 531, 1615. Of these, I really like the 388 d-1 ox on my slower blades for chopping really low. The 755 is my bread and butter that I make comparisons with and develop with. herd only good things about pogo...generally speaking, I find that its better to stick to one pip and master it. I find that the blade speed also affects the performance of the pip. should you experiment, you'll find that there will be a trade off with every pip. If you are willing to experiment then I suggest you buy coles relatively cheap pips and give them all a try.

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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 16:51 
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jrod2321 wrote:
I play a slow defensive blade and have been using CTT national Pogo OX. Previously, I have been playing an all round block/chop block/ chopping game but am now moving towards a more chopping type game. I play back from the table but not very far at all. My question is, is there a better rubber for chopping thats a long pip. What makes a long pip good for chopping? What about sponge? Do i need a sponge, will it help, and what exactly does the sponge do in regards to helping me chop?


I think most people who tried Pogo would agree that is a very good allround pip but it is for some reason not good for choppping. Dawei388D is good for that and also is little similar to Pogo in other aspects. 755 is probably also better than Pogo.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 01:12 
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jrod2321 wrote:
I play a slow defensive blade and have been using CTT national Pogo OX. Previously, I have been playing an all round block/chop block/ chopping game but am now moving towards a more chopping type game. I play back from the table but not very far at all. My question is, is there a better rubber for chopping thats a long pip. What makes a long pip good for chopping? What about sponge? Do i need a sponge, will it help, and what exactly does the sponge do in regards to helping me chop?


A good chopping LP has long pips (mostly maximum lenght - +- 1,7mm) and the pips need to be able to bend. They also need to be grippy or very grippy. You can take sponge if you play far away from the table, but if you're not playing too far, OX or maximum 0,5mm will do the trick. Sponge makes the ball sink in the pips more (i.e. gives more dwell time), enabling more spin variations. Sponge, however, will diminish control in comparison with OX. Sponged LP are in short more spin sensitive than their OX counterparts. If you're playing sponged LP for the first time and you're coming from OX ones, be prepared to keep the rubber more than one session: you'll be needing getting used to the sponge. Your chopping technique will also need to be changed (though not dramatically) before you get the maximum out of sponged LP.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 06:00 
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Great advice from all, thank you! I definitely want to stick with no sponge for now, just wondering between Dawei 388D and Friendship 755; leaning towards that 388D.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 06:54 
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I went through the same exercise for almost 2 years and realized there is no long pips that can do all (chop, block, hit and push) effectively. After 25-30 long pip experiments I realized it was more me than necessarily than the rubber. Yes, playing style is important and you have to pick long pips that are suited more to your strengths. I highly recommend Giant Dragon Talon OX as I found it to be the best for chopping and hitting. 388D-1 is also good and gets better reversal, but I was struggling a bit with no spin balls. GDT does have a higher tendency of generating its own spin which is effective when playing someone who does not impart a lot of spin.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 06:54 
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jrod2321 wrote:
Great advice from all, thank you! I definitely want to stick with no sponge for now, just wondering between Dawei 388D and Friendship 755; leaning towards that 388D.


Dawei 388D very easy to play with but hardly any spin on chops. 388D-1 a bit more difficult to play with but more spin on chops. Best rubber for classic defense is probably curl p1-r.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 07:20 
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After leaning towards a more chopping style, I realize that no rubber will cover all bases. I'm leaning towards more of a classic defense.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 09:32 
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jrod2321 wrote:
Great advice from all, thank you! I definitely want to stick with no sponge for now, just wondering between Dawei 388D and Friendship 755; leaning towards that 388D.


I'd say: go for it then, if you're feeling comfortable with.

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PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 07:33 
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Xiying 979 (OX) long pips is excellent rubber to play a defensive game. I find that it works well when arranged on Stiga Hypertech Blade. It is easy to play with it as it provides an excellent control. To play with it, chop most of the time and slow top-spin occasionally.

I think it causes trouble to an opponent because of its slow speed. Players expect the ball to receive at a reasonable speed and it is so slow that it upsets their timing. Most of the players find it difficult to play with it.

Xiying 979 with sponge is not very effective.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013, 02:28 
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I've also chopped with over 20 different LPs. Truth is I can pick up any LP and chop effectively with it. So, like everything, this is more about technique/practice vs. finding the magic rubber. Seeking the latter is an exercise in futility. That being said, as Lorre wrote, the best chopping LPs -- meaning, the best in terms of control and being able to vary spin -- are soft and long LPs. This is why feint 3 and P-1R are generally considered the best for chopping.

My recommendation is to find a good all-around pip and just stick with it. Don't worry about sponge vs/ no sponge. Sun Jian Fei manages to be one of the best players in Canada with OX -- so OX will work fine for anything, unless you want to counter attack against topspin. But even this can be done -- see Haruna Fukuoka. I am working counter attacking with OX - it's tricky but can be done with practice.

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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2013, 15:28 
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Looking at what the pro's use-they is either Curl PR-1 or Feint long 2 or 3 (also Curl P4, and Joo switched to Dtecs about 22 years ago).

Why ?Well usually its the long grippy pips and soft sponge. The long grippy pips (both on the top and sides of the pip allow maximum surface area contact wit the ball, thusly giving more spin. The soft sponge provides more dwell time on the blade allowing more control and manipulation of the spin. Placed on a slow blade this becomes a very potent defensive mix. It you dont pick hit or block at the table, then this set up is for you. Your "offense" the this set up is putting your opponent in the bottom of the net....I have 2 long pips set up they are vatly different from each other...

Ian

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