OOAK Table Tennis Forum

We had an interesting situation at our grand finals night tonight. See who you think is right
Each match of our grand finals are umpired by an official umpires, same for all the grades.

A player was about to serve his first serve, and the umpire interrupted him, saying he could not see his serve, so he could not decide if it was legal. The problem was that the umpire was sitting on one side of the table, and the player stands completely sideways with his back towards the umpire when he's serving, so obviously the umpire could not see. The umpire explained that he needed to be able to see the serve or he could not decide if it was legal. The player responded that the problem was not with him, but with the umpire, as his serve was perfectly legal and not obstructed in any way to the opponent. If the umpire wanted to see the serves, he'd have to sit on the other side of the table. Obviously under international rules this is never an issue, as there are two umpires.
The referee was called, who sided with the umpire, so the player was forced to play different serves for that game. The next game, the player was on the other side, so the umpire could see that the serves were legal (which they are), so there was no issue. Once the umpire had seen that serves were legal, he allowed him to play these serves from the initial side as well.

I could see the point of view of the umpire here, but feel that it's wrong for a player to be forced to play different serve, when his serves are perfectly legal...

What do you think?

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What a tricky situation! I have to say I feel I side with the player on this one. The umpire could move. But of course then the same issue would be the case should the other player need to serve. Perhaps you should have had 2 umpires?

Did the person with the unintentionally hidden serve win?

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The rules say that the serve has to be visible to the other player. This umpire/referee combo was totally WRONG, IMO. Of course when you read the rule below you see that 2.06 is emphasized in the above situation. If I was the player, I would have asked for an assistant umpire to sit on the other side or ask the umpire to move ALOT. I serve from the FH and BH sides and frankly I still think the umpire in this situation got a little power happy.

Copied from ITTF site:
ITTF Handbook 2014 / 2015
Index Description
2.06 THE SERVICE
2.06.01 Service shall start with the ball resting freely on the open palm of the server's stationary free hand.
2.06.02 The server shall then project the ball near vertically upwards, without imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm after leaving the palm of the free hand and then falls without touching anything before being struck.
2.06.03 As the ball is falling the server shall strike it so that it touches first his or her court and then, touches directly the receiver's court; in doubles, the ball shall touch successively the right half court of server and receiver.
2.06.04 From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by anything they wear or carry.
2.06.05 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net.
The space between the ball and the net is defined by the ball, the net and its indefinite upward extension.
2.06.06 It is the responsibility of the player to serve so that the umpire or the assistant umpire can be satisfied that he or she complies with the requirements of the Laws, and either may decide that a service is incorrect.
2.06.06.01 If either the umpire or the assistant umpire is not sure about the legality of a service he or she may, on the first occasion in a match, interrupt play and warn the server; but any subsequent service by that player or his or her doubles partner which is not clearly legal shall be considered incorrect.
2.06.07 Exceptionally, the umpire may relax the requirements for a correct service where he or she is satisfied that compliance is prevented by physical disability.

Umpire was wrong, he can't make a call when he is out of position !

If a Rugby, Baseball, Football, Basketball umpire or referee made that kind of call ...... they would laugh him off the field court !

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This. However when I am in this situation as an umpire, I don't insist on it. But it is the letter of the law. So the umpire is in the right. If the player has to change his service or not do particular serves then so be it.

What would have happened if the ball touched the server's shirt in the toss? Could the umpire have adjudicated on that? Or if the toss was not particularly vertical, or high enough or the ball hit on the way down ...? Meanwhile, even if these things are able to be seen, the umpire often cannot tell if the ball is hidden from the receiver during the ball toss or at contact.

I assume the umpires were paid for their services. In the future you may want to pay to have an assistant umpire for each match.

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I suspect the rule in made for international competition, which should be played under international condition, which should include an assistant umpire.

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I think the referee needs to wait until/if the other player complains about the serve. If the other player has no problem with his opponents' service, then I don't see why it's necessary for the referee to step in. I suppose it's possible the other player could be getting cheated without his awareness.

On the other hand, I find that the majority of people that stand sideways on the serve do so because they want to hide the ball on impact. I often see professional matches where I honestly cannot see the ball when it hits the paddle during service, even though I have essentially the same view of the player being served to.

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abdulmuhsee said:


And you should try picking this as either the umpire or assistant umpire who are sitting either side of the net. I watched the Mens single final at a previous Australian Championships with the current "no hide" service rule, and from behind the receiver I could not see the ball for almost the whole toss. I cannot remember the names of the players involved, or indeed the umpires .

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How often does this happen? I think players expect the referee to be watching. Also in league matches it's very tricky because the umpire is almost always either a player from one's own team, or from the opponent's team. Tricky position there. Additionally, it's usually perceived as sour grapes to complain about the serve... I dunno - I think the rule is there to be enforced, but it's a touchy subject.

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In this case the serve is perfectly legal (as confirmed by the umpire when he was on the other side)... it's simply the stance of the server that blocks the view from one side.

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Is the stance conventional? If the stance is unconventional yet providing no advantage, I'd say that it's the players problem that he needs to fix or risk it again. Seems the umpire was within the rules.

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haggisv wrote:


2.06.06 It is the responsibility of the player to serve so that the umpire or the assistant umpire can be satisfied that he or she complies with the requirements of the Laws, and either may decide that a service is incorrect.

So how can the umpire be satisfied that the server complies with the requirements of the Laws if they cannot see the ball until after contact?

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I agree with you there, but I believe this rule is for International ITTF competitions, where there is always an assistant umpire, so this situation would not occur. The fact that they mention both the umpire AND assistant umpire, implies that BOTH are present (if there was only 1 umpire, they would just refer to it as 'umpire').

I believe it's unfair to impose international rules on the players, when International playing conditions (ie two umpires) are not met.

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I can only support Retriever in this. While allowances may be made for beginners and young players, the rules should be enforced on top level. "Grand finals" implies top level to my ears.

No they wouldn't. They'd yell rudely and push and usher him out of there. ... at best.
There might be bodily injury.

If a TT umpire insisted that the play be conducted with an egg shaped ball, there would probably be laughing, and then possibly a polite (or perhaps not so polite) explanation of things.

My points explained:
According to my experience: In a TT court, common courtesy is expected. Not so much in the court of those other sports mentioned.
A valid choice or decision in one sport (e.g. that rugby be played with an egg shaped ball) does not always transfer to the next sport. Rules are different.

In TT the rules require that the server make the ball trajectory visible to opponent and sufficiently apparent to the ones umpiring the match. They also specify that there be two umpires. However, the serve requirement is part of the "laws of table tennis" (chapter 2 of the ITTF handbook), while the requirement for assistant umpire is part of the rules for international competition (chapter 3). My interpretation is that, in principle, the server must make allowances for serve visibility towards umpire, also when there is only one umpire. Otherwise, the serve is not strictly legal, even when the serve action as such is according to the rules.

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You make a good argument keme. The only counter argument I can make is that the fact that they mention both the umpire AND assistant umpire, implies that BOTH are present (if there was only 1 umpire, they would just refer to it as 'umpire'). So from this we could conclude that if they are NOT present, the rule cannot be strictly enforced.

Of course I accept that the umpire and referee decision in this situation are final, and that's how it should be too. I have the highest respect for both the umpire and referee for this particular situation (in fact they are friends), so I'm not refuting their decision.

However I thought it well worth discussing this issue, as it may well arise again...

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