OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hello all...I've been playing with my Defplay for a while now. I love it for chopping and modern defense.

I recently converted to a WW Grip (Seemiller, American Grip, etc) and was using the Defplay to great success with this blade, being a WW grip Modern Defender. However, I wanted to experiment as I wasn't sure the Defplay with P-1R was the right set up for that style because I'm AT the table much more. Therefore, I dusted off my first defensive blade, the Hallmark Aurora which I had originally chose for a push blocking style of play. For WW Grip, I love it! It's light, and has a good all-around feel to it. Great for blocking WW Grip or blocking BH with the Pips on the BH DEF side (On the Aurora, I've got Palio CK531a, but Dragon Talon is on it's way to replace it).

I've heard numerous times on the forum that the "Aurora isn't a chopping blade." However, I must say that with OX pips, I don't feel like it chops badly. In fact, I win a lot of points with my chops. What makes it not a "Chopping blade?" Also, besides the shape and flex, what makes the Defplay a "Chopping blade?"

With my new style, I am wanting to use the pips in more of an All-around fashion, as matches aren't always conducive to a chopping game. There are some games where I NEVER get to chop because the opponent doesn't give me that kind of ball, or I don't get backhand balls as often. I'm pretty good at chopping, so I don't want to throw that part of my game away.

Am I doomed to pick between chopping and blocking? Should I try blocking with the Defplay more? Or Chopping with the Aurora more? Is there a blade that does both equally well?

Thanks!

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

I can't really comment on those two blades, but can make a few general comments of the attributes needed.

A larger, heavier blade will chop better I've been told.

Myself, I have found that what wood is on the top plies determines a lot of how a blade will chop. Softer and slower are better, but if you also plan to attack with it, softer and slower are going to hurt its ability there.

Blocking is like smashing or chopping very fast balls because its how the blade reacts to the impact that's important.

Anyway, because I'm trying to attack more, I need a smaller, lighter blade that I can move quickly and swing very fast, which isn't so easily done for me. On my forehand I have medium-hard fruit wood on top, with a softer fruit wood under it, and a layer of balsa underneath for smashing power, and that seems do do well with my rubber for chopping, blocking, hitting and smashing.

On my backhand the top ply is a very hard wood, and with 0X pips that gives me tons of reversal up at the table especially. I have a soft core under it to absorb a lot of the harder hits and that combined with the reversal helps keep blocks and chops shorter.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

The defplay isn't really heavy, minus the rubber anyway. Since the head is heavy, rubbers will certainly change that.

With the Aurora, it's lightness is real helpful with the WW Grip wrist shots. It's a combi blade, and the the Def side of the Aurora is perfect for blocking with pips, particularly OX, and I've noticed (as have my cursing opponents) that the reversal is good. I think the top layer is hard? Not sure if I'm judging that correctly.
The only thing I find annoying is the thickness...balsa blades tend to be thicker. But I suppose I'll get used to that. I really love both of these blades.

Dont get me wrong, the chopping on the Defplay with the P-1R 0.6mm is as close to perfect as it gets, but I'm not chopping 100% of the time during match play.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

Yes, I have had thick mostly balsa 2 speed blades and didn't like them that much. It had good reversal due to a hard top ply on BH, but I just didn't feel I had the good control like I have with the thinner hard wood blades. I found that a thin layer of balsa under a couple hardwood layers on forehand gave me a reasonable thickness and weight, as well as good feel and control on pretty much all shots. I figured that out by trial and error, LOL. I don't know if there are any commercially available blades made that way.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

Blocking blades are generally thicker and stiffer, to produce more lower-throw and faster blocks. That's why 7 plies are the ideal for blockers.

Chopping blades are generally thinner and more flexible. Top plies don't matter. Joo SH has a very hard top ply while many chopping blades have softer top plies. Preference thing.

I don't think weight matters much for chopping.

I'd say overall -- don't worry about it. You can chop/block with ANY blade. It's just a matter of changing angles by a few degrees!

However, I, as a chopper, don't like thick, stiff blades to chop with. Nor do I find flexible blades ideal for blocking -- that is, and here is the caveat, you prefer slow (thin flexible blade) blade to block with in order to keep the ball in play. These thin blades will pop the ball up more and be more unpredictable... if the ball hits the top of the blade, it will flex and throw the ball up more... whereas, a stiff blade will have more predictable, linear blocks.

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Kim Kyung Ah + Skyline TG 3 Neo + 799 1.2mm

Outside of topspinning* the better distinction to take is between defensive and offensive blades.

Offensive blades are used to return the ball fast as you can control. Fast means stiff, a thick or hard material. High end LP blockers/attackers use relatively fast blades. Most of us lack the skills necessary to use more than OFF- at best with any kind of stroke variety.

Defensive needs to absorb speed to control the ball and the point, so the slowest blade you can get away with. Slow means thin or soft material. Even ALL blades can be challenging to learn chop with if you don't have good touch. Note many DEF blades (especially "pro" or chinese ones) are faster than ALL. Personally I'd recommend getting the slowest thing you can get your hands on to learn correct form first.

Almost all amateurs tend to use stuff too fast for them. I'm sure we've all seen the gimpy strokes used to maintain some semblance of control which are the hallmark of club level matches.

*Topspinning uses the rubber instead of the blade. You want as little blade as possible (ie slowest) that you can still manage other shots with. The rubber provides the speed here. Even though in theory it's a special case, in practice topspin dominates the game so just get a slow blade to learn how to do it this.

The Hallmark Aurora has a thick Balsa core. Balsa is a very soft, springy and jumpy wood that doesn't hold the ball very well and spits it out very fast, which makes it good for blocking. But generally for chopping you want the blade to be made of wood that holds the ball for a good amount of time to be able to control your chops on powerful loopdrives and smashes. The Defplay is a true chopping blade because it is very flexible, and it holds the ball for a very long time compared to a thick, stiff blade like the Aurora.

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SPW/Solo

So based on the consensus there is no right answer... It is based on your tendencies and skill.

For example:
I have used the defplay, VKM, A really slow hardbat blade (Valor American Chopper), Defense 2, Chen weixing, Defplay senso classic, and some offensive ones Persson seven, Butterfly innerforce ALC to similar degrees of success.

I have used sponge, and ox.

The softer blades chop well with ox because the dwell time is longer, but they also have less passive reversal than the harder blades. Thicker blades tend to be faster and the fastest chopping blade amongst the blades above has been the defense 2 and the innerforce alc.

The sponge generally adds dwell time and lessens the passive reversal, but can still block if an active stroke is used. Softer sponge adds even more dwell time. But what make things even more confusing is the combination of pips and sponge used with each blade.

For example I used hellfire ox on the persson seven which is a seven ply offensive wood. It blocked good but also chopped well. It did not have the same high end backspin of a defplay with p1r but was great for an allround game. I got away from it because the strongest loop drives were hard to return because the blade speed was slightly too fast for me to control.

ITs all a matter of preference and sticking with what you have so you can learn how to deal with all situations.
I personally don't like thick blades, but like you have been in between chopping and blocking. I find ox rubber works good but 0.6 on p1r isnt that much different because the hardness of the sponge. I prefer the long pips that like an active stroke because they tend to also be easier to hit with for me so the hugest passive reversal is not what I'm looking for.
I hope this post is helpful.

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-Teddy

Very helpful thanks! I too prefer pips that require an active stroke as well, and LOVE the P-1R. A setup that can do both well, such as you Persson Seven and Hellfire ox combo, is what I'm going after.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

A side note:
Today I put the Dragon Talon on the Aurora...WOW. It's a nice in-between rubber that chops well, hits well, and BLOCKS amazingly. Best pips push stroke I've ever used. I beat guys I've never beat tonight, and was able to chop when I wanted, but block for variety. I used the gluesheet..

The hype certainly suits this rubber. Very nice, lots of control, natural feeling. But even better, I didn't feel like it forced me to choose between the 2 styles (chopping, blocking). For a "Blocking" rubber, it has just enough bite to make it comfortable to chop with. You can feel it...doesn't feel like "safe chopping." It's definitely adding to the spin, not like P-1R, but pretty damn good.

Afterwards I was doing some chopping drills with a guy who has a nice loop and was nice enough to indulge me. We worked on chop/loop and he felt like the underspin was as good, and at times better than the P-1R. Definitely better on the first loop. Less variation obviously, which is the P-1R's best attribute.
We then did some drills where he chopped and I attacked underspin. This is my worst area, and a stroke I need much work on. Pretty natural with the Talon though, and I was able to lift underspin for a pips counterloop quite nicely. My partner hated it, so there's definitely a lot of deception there.

I was very pleased, my opponents, not so much.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

It sounds like you found a combination that works for your game. I think I'd just stick with it a while and see if it doesn't get better with time and practice.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

I can't count how many times I thought I found the perfect combo, only to be find it defective a mere week later!
It all depends who you play, how you're playing, etc. etc.

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Kim Kyung Ah + Skyline TG 3 Neo + 799 1.2mm

Haha, agreed!

I recently changed styles to a part-time WW grip, prompting me to be at the table a lot more than I was. So, I'm tinkering.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

Yes, but if you are playing games and matches with it and winning against people you don't normally beat, it probably means that a lot of your shots are working better.

It seems to me that if that's the case, its a good reason to stick with that one longer, at least till you find a major problem with it that you can't fix...

Just thinking aloud here. For me when I switch anything, it usually means that I'll be losing for a month while I get used to the change. Sometimes thast's what its takeen to make big improvements longer term.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

People who enjoy switching equipment over improving skills are often more motivated/optimistic/confident after doing do. This tends to lead to better performance at least temporarily. It can also lead to a selective honesty about effectiveness, not unlike many gamblers who only tend to boast about their wins.

These are likely among the reasons why forever-1500 EJs find the best setup a great many times.