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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 22:05 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I do think he's a genuine flat Earther, and he isn't faking (though he thinks everyone else is). He's sincere. Unfortunately, like pretty much all other flat Earthers, he's not very good at arguing, since all their arguments defy logic, and the only way for them to continue believing what they believe is to fool themselves and pretend that they are arguing when what they really are doing is ignoring sound arguments by being evasive. Yes, trying to argue with them is like hitting your head against a brick wall, you will never get anywhere. Still, it needs to be done, what with the state of the world - a LOT of people now buy into conspiracy theories and all this nonsense, the flat earth is just one example, and relatively harmless one at that. I think the real value of arguing with them isn't that you'd ever convince them (they'll just think that, like Stephen Hawking, you belong to the Illuminati and are lying :lol: ) but there are lots of people out there (even on this forum - go back a dozen pages on this thread) who aren't science-savvy and might actually think they "have a point", until shown otherwise.
Iskandar


At first I thought he might be just flirting with the idea. After some repetitive replies with no acknowledgement or comment on the information provided by others the possibility of trolling occurred to me. But now I think that you might be correct. As unlikely as it may seem, it's quite possible that he genuinely and sincerely believes that the earth is flat. That likelihood is reflected in this article about flat earthers:

https://theness.com/neurologicablog/ind ... -tells-us/

It also confirms that providing facts will have little effect.


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 22:37 
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Okay, mac, I'm prepared to believe you're not a troll, and that you genuinely believe the earth is flat. I'm also convinced by the article that dusty054 just posted that science and evidence won't change your mind.

Which brings me to the big question: is this what you believe?
    For the flat-earth theory to be correct, there would have to be a conspiracy of pretty much all institutions of science over all countries, controlling all individual scientists and even many amateurs, over centuries. Many different specialties will have to be involved too, from astronomy to physics, geology, and meteorology. The extent of the conspiracy would have to be all-encompassing – the grand conspiracy of all grand conspiracies.

Do you really believe that all science is corrupt?


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 23:29 
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mac33 wrote:
And then you get a telescope and the bottom of the ship will come back in to view showing its NOT dropping over any curvature. Remember water / the oceans do not curve.

Put a ruler across the horizon and there's no fall off or drop.


No the bottom of the ship will not come back into view.

The water in the oceans do curve because gravity acts along the radius of the sphere pulling it into a curve that is consistent with the force at each point along each radius. Of course you have to deny the force of gravity if you are a flat earther else the disk you envision would be warped and eventually compressed into a sphere by that force. The unfortunate part is you have no replacement for this force and thus no way to explain how people can remain on the flat surface you hypothesize.


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 01:59 
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mac33 wrote:
I posted the Stephen Hawking clip with the helicopter dropping 24 feet below the horizon at a 6 mile distance as evidence of the lies we are being told.

If the water does drop 24 feet from that 6 mile distance ( it's spot on with the formula for calculating curvature were the earth a 25000 mile ball) then looking at the horizon at the beach,you should also see a 24 feet drop off looking 6 miles to the right and left. You do not - so I can only conclude his experiment was a con.


Oh you can, can you? Let's take your 24 feet at 6 miles at face value (it's probably off, though it might be true if the camera is set low to the ground). How many feet in 6 miles? I remember from school that 1 mile = 1760 yards = 5280 feet. 6 miles would be what? 31,680 feet. A drop of 24 feet would be imperceptible compared to the 31,680 horizontal feet. You're fond of holding up rulers to the horizon. OK, so we'll hold up a 12 inch ruler. That's your "6 miles". How much of a drop is 24 feet at this scale? 0.009" (i.e. "inch" :lol: ). Ever gap a spark plug? That's about a fifth of the gap of a typical spark plug, or slightly more than the width of a hair. You want to tell me you know for certain your ruler is straight to less than .009" at the end?? Or even if it were, you could tell the horizon and the ruler don't match by that much? If so I would suggest that you've never had to build or maintain anything finely mechanical in your life. The only way you could tell if your ruler is this straight would be to use a finely machined machinist's block (maybe the bed of a high quality lathe) and lay the ruler down on it to see if there is a tiny sliver of light at one end when the other end touches the block. You'd need micrometer eyes, which nobody has, to tell if the horizon is as curved as this.

I am going through this trouble to post this not to convince you, which is impossible, but to make it clear to others who aren't of like mind that your argument is bunk. You can verify the numbers yourself - you don't need to be an engineer of "rocket scientist" to do it. You just need a calculator. You don't even have to touch those other complicated keys, just the "x" and "/" will be enough.

madc33 wrote:
Lay a towel on a flat ground and walk away. After a short distance it will start to disappear.


Mac, have you actually DONE THIS? I'll bet you haven't. First of all, the towel WILL disappear when you get far enough from it so that it's behind the horizon. How far? Say your eyes are 5 1/2 feet off the ground. The refracted horizon will be 3.1 miles away (see https://www.metabunk.org/curve/). Why do I know you've never done this experiment? Because 1) you need an unobstructed view from ground level for 3.1 miles. No hills, no houses, no waves, no cars, no pitcher's mounds, no anthills, even, since anthills are taller than towels... AND you can't be standing on a hill either. 2) you need a telescope powerful enough to see the towel 3.1 miles away. Go do this experiment yourself and then report back. Take some actual photos while you're at it. Yeah, it costs money to travel to, say, the Bonneville Salt Flats, but research costs money, don't you know. Maybe there's some sort of Flat Earth grant money available.. :lol:

mac33 wrote:

The true method of knowledge is experiment.

- William Blake


HA!!!!!! HA!!!!!! HA!!!!! In the case of flat earthers, as I said - they don't actually DO any of these experiments, they just watch more YouTube videos.

birchamboi wrote:
Do you really believe that all science is corrupt?


As mind-boggling as it is to the rest of us, that's exactly what he believes. He has to. If he believes, for instance, that GPS (which he's got in his smart phone and he knows DOES work well enough to find his way to the venue when he goes to a different city to attend a Flat Earth convention) works via ground-based transmitters, then there's got to be thousands and thousands of people who were involved at setting up the system and no one's ever ratted on it. Everyone's in on it, from Google (who puts up his beloved videos, by the way) to the Chinese, who built the smart phone. All these disparate people in disparate organizations, all colluding to keep the world in the dark. He's GOT to believe this, if he doesn't, it wouldn't make sense, even to him.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 02:53 
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mac33 is not a troll - I have listened to many of his beliefs first hand....


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 07:32 
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PRW wrote:
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mac33 is not a troll - I have listened to many of his beliefs first hand....


You have my sympathies ...

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 09:16 
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haha - mac33 just has strong, unusual beliefs. I now live on the other side of the world .... :D


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 10:54 
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PRW wrote:
haha - mac33 just has strong, unusual beliefs.

Hell's teeth, I have strong, unusual beliefs too - porridge is the greatest breakfast food of all time, backhand topspin should be played from all corners of the table, teeth should be cleaned while sitting down, tourists should be made to wear pointy, yellow hats so I can identify and avoid them - but I don't inflict these strong, unusual beliefs on innocent bystanders. Nor do I insist that verifiable evidence which contradicts my beliefs is corrupt. (Yes, I continue to play my backhand in my own unique style, but I don't tell the guy who's just thrashed me with his forehand that he's part of a conspiracy.)


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 13:21 
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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 04:02 
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PRW - flat or sphere.

Stationary or a spinning ball.

Moon landing fake or real.

911 - controlled demolition or two 'planes' and fire.

No fence sitting allowed.


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 04:48 
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mac33 wrote:
PRW - flat or sphere.

Stationary or a spinning ball.

Moon landing fake or real.

911 - controlled demolition or two 'planes' and fire.

No fence sitting allowed.

Hello mac,

sphere, spinning, real, and planes! Sorry to disappoint you.... :D


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 04:49 
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(but then again, what do I know - I also have this delusion I can play table tennis....)


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 07:36 
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PRW wrote:

Quote:
(but then again, what do I know - I also have this delusion I can play table tennis....)


I think a lot of us suffer from this mass delusion, as long as it does not spread to thinking any of us have having general delusions of adequacy ... not so much the plane dirt assumption.

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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 18:34 
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Here is a good example of how science can be gotten to or at least heavily influenced by money,big money.

Now NASA is part of the Department Of Defence. The budget for NASA alone is something like 50 million a day plus so we are talking a huge annual budget.

Could money also influence their science like it certainly seems to do in other areas of science?


https://www.sott.net/article/387913-Lea ... and-Health


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 22:39 
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mac33 wrote:
Here is a good example of how science can be gotten to or at least heavily influenced by money,big money.

Now NASA is part of the Department Of Defence. The budget for NASA alone is something like 50 million a day plus so we are talking a huge annual budget.

Could money also influence their science like it certainly seems to do in other areas of science?


That is why you wait for the results of peer review journals, and replication by independent researchers before you jump on the band wagon and accept something as proven based on the claims of just one source.

But isn't that exactly what flat earthers have failed to do? There literally is no experimental work being done in any proper way, there is no publication of results in a peer review journal of any type and there is no follow up to apply the exact same protocols to replicate the experiment by completely independent researchers - and yet there are a small group of conspiracy minded individuals who are willing to accept the claims simply because they match their limited personal experience of the world.


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