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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 01:47 
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He thinks the sun is some sort of lamp hanging over the flat Earth, and it moves in a circle some relatively short distance over the disc. So I suppose he'd explain Aristothenes by saying the sun-lamp would be exactly over Aswan but slightly to the "south" of Alexandria. And that the sun-lamp migrates "north" and "south" (i.e. towards and away from the center of the disc) during the different seasons of the year. Problem is it's pretty easy to demonstrate the sun is a sphere (just needs a cheap telescope - or cameral lens off a SLR - and a piece of paper) rather than some sort of spotlight, and a sphere radiating light would NEVER disappear if the Earth were flat. You'd never get night, you'd see the sun-lamp-sphere far to the north when it's supposed to be night. But I'll bet he'll just ignore this and move on to the laser boat experiments he thinks solves everything.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 03:10 
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iskandar taib wrote:
He thinks the sun is some sort of lamp hanging over the flat Earth, and it moves in a circle some relatively short distance over the disc. So I suppose he'd explain Aristothenes by saying the sun-lamp would be exactly over Aswan but slightly to the "south" of Alexandria.


The problem is just how amazingly low the sun has to hang above the earth to get the shadows to appear as they do. So close that you now have to doubt the way the sun keeps burning and doubt all the science we learned from it and all the science we used to support the ideas. Pretty soon there is an avalanche or snowball effect and you start doubting fundamentals like the relationship for Pi, etc. That is the real problem with pseudo scientific studies like this and the new age medicine area and even climate change deniers - you cannot simply denounce an area of scientific study without replacing it with something else you call into question all of science, because it is all so tightly interwoven and interdependent.

In a similar vein, I have run into people who just have to deny the velocity of light is a constant, never realizing that if we do so, and deny all of special relativity in the process, we suddenly have no explanation for how the tunnel diodes we designed work, how the mu-mesons we measure at the level of the satellites get down to earth without decaying to the point of disappearing, and a host of other problems. For example, we have no way to explain why we did all the super hard math to get our spaceships to the outer planets instead of just using simple Newtonian calculations. And since the results are so different they have to explain why the Newtonian way would not have gotten us there.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 10:34 
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sderyke2002 wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
He thinks the sun is some sort of lamp hanging over the flat Earth, and it moves in a circle some relatively short distance over the disc. So I suppose he'd explain Aristothenes by saying the sun-lamp would be exactly over Aswan but slightly to the "south" of Alexandria.


The problem is just how amazingly low the sun has to hang above the earth to get the shadows to appear as they do. So close that you now have to doubt the way the sun keeps burning and doubt all the science we learned from it and all the science we used to support the ideas. Pretty soon there is an avalanche or snowball effect and you start doubting fundamentals like the relationship for Pi, etc. That is the real problem with pseudo scientific studies like this and the new age medicine area and even climate change deniers - you cannot simply denounce an area of scientific study without replacing it with something else you call into question all of science, because it is all so tightly interwoven and interdependent.

In a similar vein, I have run into people who just have to deny the velocity of light is a constant, never realizing that if we do so, and deny all of special relativity in the process, we suddenly have no explanation for how the tunnel diodes we designed work, how the mu-mesons we measure at the level of the satellites get down to earth without decaying to the point of disappearing, and a host of other problems. For example, we have no way to explain why we did all the super hard math to get our spaceships to the outer planets instead of just using simple Newtonian calculations. And since the results are so different they have to explain why the Newtonian way would not have gotten us there.

I think this is the point I've reached now. I've never been a science geek - word games have always been my thing - but at least I have some level of basic respect for those who understand and do science. But at mac's level of insanity there is absolutely zero respect for any scientist in any science discipline. By rejecting one part of our knowledge base, he rejects all of our knowledge base, and calls into question the integrity of every single person who has ever studied anything in any depth. I have a daughter who is a senior research audiologist; by rejecting the globe, he rejects her ability to put a hearing aid in the ear of a deaf person. Surely that is insanity? And yet he drives a car and uses satellite navigation and never questions how that is possible if his ludicrous theories were true. Surely that is also insanity? And he watches TV and uses a computer, goes to the doctor and buys blades containing "space age" materials, but never, ever questions the science. Insanity.

I've given up trying to argue with him. To argue with him is to dignify him and his insane conspiracies, which is far more than he deserves given the lack of respect he shows everyone else.

BTW, have you noticed he has never attempted to explain how the conspiracy started thousands of years ago, who is behind it, or how they enlist the world's scientists to their project? Apparently it's enough to have a nutty theory and not have to explain it.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 14:23 
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To be honest, I don't think Mac or any of the other Fat Earthers has ever put much thought into it... they just parrot what the YouTube videos say. Along with the conspiracy theories, it sorta makes sense to them in a superficial way.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 17:05 
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Nah,got that one wrong.

It's the ball earthers who regurgitate the 'facts or science' fed to them on a daily basis by the corporate owned and controlled media.

Contrary viewpoints are by and large edited out - just look at 911 for proof of that.

There are scores of fireman,tradies etc who were interviewed on that day and their live testimony of hearing huge explosions going off in the building including the sub basement ( prior to collapse) were shown on the mainstream only once. There was no further investigation allowed by any mainstream journalists of their claims.

From that, i can only believe we live in a age of conspiracy.

https://www.aircrap.org/2018/06/13/for- ... -defeated/


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 18:42 
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mac33 wrote:
From that, i can only believe we live in a age of conspiracy.
No, we live in an age of conspiracy theorists, dummies who can't even identify the extent of their nuttiness. I'm assuming you can count and do basic mathematics. Do the sums. How many people have to be in on this "conspiracy" ? Give us an estimate of how many scientists are lying to us? How was it possible for this to start hundreds and thousands of years ago and still be going today? How are basic mathematics, geography, astronomy, physics manipulated so that modern scholars - the hundreds of thousands who go to universities to study these subjects - can't identify that they're being lied to? For God's sake, grow a brain and ask the right questions instead of watching stupid videos where dumb people all convince themselves that the lizard people are in control.

By the way, I don't expect you to answer questions. You don't have enough respect for us to do that.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 19:42 
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I'll try and give you an answer as to why so many in academia are duped.

Again,look at 911 as that's such an obvious con job.

So many in positions of authority be that Uni Professors,people in high positions of Govt etc,etc believe what they are told. It comes from the top down.

An onion is a good example. Think of the outer layers of the onion being the lower level workers - they have absolutely no idea how the system works or is potentially rigged.

The middle layers are the professional workers. Even the near inner layers - people in very high positions of authority - again nearly all have little conception of how the world really works.

All are dupes. You only have to have control at the very top to fool the masses.

Of course there will come a time like we have currently when a good percentage of the masses wake up - think 911 conspiracy - but it makes little difference as this awakening is not reported on the mainstream media anyway.

So what I'm trying to get to - fooling academia is easy provided you have absolute control at the top.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 21:31 
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mac33 wrote:
Nah,got that one wrong.
It's the ball earthers who regurgitate the 'facts or science' fed to them on a daily basis by the corporate owned and controlled media.


While that might be true for the general public there are some like myself (I have a Master's degree in Physics) who can do the math for themselves and so can test these things and know they make sense. And test kookie ideas and see that they don't. Now I am not saying this to convince you to take my word for it. I am not even saying this to make myself seem special - because I am not. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people like me in the USA alone (assuming at least one in a hundred people has some college level technical/science training). And THAT is the point! With that many people around who can test these ideas and call the establishment out on them if they are wrong, then the conspiracy you rely on is shown to be pure fantasy.

mac33 wrote:
Contrary viewpoints are by and large edited out - just look at 911 for proof of that.

There are scores of fireman,tradies etc who were interviewed on that day and their live testimony of hearing huge explosions going off in the building including the sub basement ( prior to collapse) were shown on the mainstream only once. There was no further investigation allowed by any mainstream journalists of their claims.


What you are talking about is anecdotal evidence - much like the testimony of nurses who claim ER visits go up during a full moon. Personal observation is completely untrustworthy. And when it comes right down to it, that is really what bothers the common man, who mostly are the ones who compose the followers of these hair brained ideas. They bristle at the idea that their opinion or observations are so easily dismissed and thus un-valued. Sorry but that is how science works. You cannot rely on random observations (especially in the heat of the moment). You need detailed, planned and designed, observations in controlled environments.

I have a tee shirt which has the primary fundamental equation supporting the models of climate change and global warming on it and below that a simple statement. "If you cannot do the math you do not get an opinion." Congress does not get to vote on what is and is not science. Science is not democratic. We don't ask the common man to define lightning or explain how the sun remains lit for millions of years. Why would we let them try to describe a world they have only experienced from the middle of one isolate field behind their home (or some other limited set of observations done without training).


Last edited by sderyke2002 on 15 Jun 2018, 22:14, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 21:38 
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mac33 wrote:
I'll try and give you an answer as to why so many in academia are duped.

Again,look at 911 as that's such an obvious con job.

So many in positions of authority be that Uni Professors,people in high positions of Govt etc,etc believe what they are told. It comes from the top down.

.
.
.

All are dupes. You only have to have control at the very top to fool the masses.



So what I'm trying to get to - fooling academia is easy provided you have absolute control at the top.


I am sorry where did you prove how academia is duped?

All you did was put forward two assumptions - one was that academics believe everything told to them from above - which cannot be further from the truth. The reason people go on for more education is because they have questioning minds. The second was that those at the top or as you expressed it in your mixed metaphor - in the middle of the onion - have absolute control. Something you never provide any evidence for and one which you cannot explain how it would allow them to dupe academicians who have the skills to solve these problems for their own and can spot contradictory evidence and reasoning, because that is what they are trained to do.


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 01:11 
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ha - so I think that I have worked it all out!

The reason why most people don't believe that the earth is flat, is because of the effect of chemtrails and fluoride, which catches those people who weren't vaccinated.

The chemtrail and fluoride program is run by the Illuminati, as agents for New World Order (Lee Harvey Oswald was one, as well as being a part-time alien), who were also responsible for 9/11.

This program is run out of Denver airport...... why am I feeling so sleepy?


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 03:05 
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Mac, I think I missed the basic part of "why?" What are the reasons FE's think it's all being hidden? I realize I could google, but I'd rather just ask. Why is this round earth myth being hidden from me? What's to gain?

Also, how do you explain the sheer volume of people that would be in cahoots...some of which are in my family. (You might have already explained this, but I missed it). Remember the bit about, every scientist, every pilot, geographer, military, satellite makers, world travelers, astronauts, physicists, etc. Justin Timberlake said he has traveled literally flown around the world several times.....he's part of it too?

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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 06:12 
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Well,you have the huge 20 billion dollar NASA budget. A transference of wealth from the taxpayers to the ruling elite who run the department.

However,it's more about hiding the truth of where life started.

Evolution theory and their spinning ball theory go hand in hand.

With a fixed flat plain there's much less credibility to their evolution theory or at least the masses are much more unlikely to buy the story of evolution. The word history is made up of two words his - story.

Their evolution theory is such a complete croc it almost outdoes their spinning ball theory.

Watch the second hour of the Flat Earth Lancashire England doco - it's still the best one out there i think.


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 07:18 
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mac33 wrote:
So many in positions of authority be that Uni Professors,people in high positions of Govt etc,etc believe what they are told. It comes from the top down.


You really, really have no idea how science works, do you? A scientist is someone whose entire career is based on asking questions. And believing nothing. Science is the art of asking questions: why does this work? how can we explain these phenomena? what are the forces behind what we see? Any scientist who accepts what they're told without critical examination is not a scientist. This is not new nor radical nor unrealistic. This is how science works. Any new scientific discovery is subjected to the most rigorous examination. Nothing is published without undergoing thorough review by other highly qualified scientists who are working to disprove (not support, not agree with) the new findings. It's only after that examination has happened that the material is accepted - not as truth, but as the best available answer.

Science does not work "from the top down". Science is the work of people who do the hard work of discovery as their day-to-day employment. Those medical breakthroughs that may one day save your life: they're done by ordinary scientists, working in ordinary laboratories. Science has always been the work of the people. Einstein developed the special theory of relativity while working in a patents office, eight years before he was appointed to a university. James Cook made the most accurate observation of the time of the transit of Venus while working as a ship's captain. Science is littered with examples of bottom up science.

But again, why am I bothering to explain kiddie stuff to you? Your whole worldview is set in concrete. The sad part is you just keep repeating nonsense and won't even attempt to answer simple questions. Tell me: if the earth is flat, why do ships' hulls disappear before their superstructure? And don't pretend they don't.


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 12:20 
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Note that he's not even addressed the issue I brought up earlier, that is, that it's impossible to tell a straight line (or ruler) from a curved one if the curve is a tiny .009" in 12". As I see it, he's got the following choices:

1) Admit I'm right, and the horizon he THINKS is flat is curved imperceptibly (Hell would freeze over before he admits this, though).

2) Insist I'm wrong but can't show me WHY I'm wrong. He'll just claim to have micrometer eyes and can see the difference.

3) Continue to ignore it (which is my prediction). And go watch more YouTube videos.

Can't blame the Illuminati on this one... it's in front of his very eyes... :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2018, 20:49 
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sderyke2002 wrote:
Mac33 -

What is your answer to the proof by Eratosthenes that the earth is round?...

How can we trust Eratosthenes?

You must know that Eratosthenes also devised an algorithm for determining prime numbers, "the sieve".

Prime numbers have a conspiracy of their own, as do number algorithms.

See:
https://www.quantamagazine.org/mathemat ... -20160313/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2194900051

Proof as good as most of what is previously posted in this thread. ;)


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