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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2017, 19:06 
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I would counter hit before it drops or let it drop and chop it back.

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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2017, 19:42 
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Its too spinny to chop back on forehand for me, might work if i twiddle pips to forehand. I will try counter. Maybe its just an angle thing. If ball bounced above net height i don't have problem but its below. The ball bounces about 1 feet after net and dips low and obviously im 2 feet behind table or more cant really get to ball earlier. I need try take video. He told me he uses that shot alot against pip players


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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2017, 22:37 
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joesan wrote:
He told me he uses that shot alot against pip players


He's looping to your inverted side though right?

A video would certainly help. I can't really visualise what's happening. Ordinarily if I'm a couple feet back I have enough time to move forward a bit to block a slow loop or shuffle back a bit and chop it. Perhaps you need to adjust your game a bit for this opponent. Stand a bit closer and do more pushing and blocking, wait for something to attack. Playing short will also minimise opportunities for him to loop.

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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2017, 03:44 
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I think all loops within reason are blockable (people USATT 2,000 or under) with the right equipment.

I'm not sure what you are using. I block anything if I'm positioned properly with LPs and defense paddle.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2017, 03:58 
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It's an interesting question. In theory I expect any loop can be blocked with a perfect combination of touch and angle. In practice there is probably a crossover point where your odds of making a counterloop or smash equal or exceed your odds of blocking the ball on the table, and most players would change tactics when they feel that point has been reached.


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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2017, 09:17 
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If the guy comes to the club again I will ask if he mines filming him. Its a shot I dont play against often and its the bounce that's really low that confuses me. Most slow loops I encounter go high over net dips and bounces higher then net height. His ones just dont bounce up high at all just stay low . I am basically trying to block back the ball from below net height, the first bounce would land in the front 1/3 of the table and if I leave it, I'm guessing it will hit the floor no further than 3 feet from table. I dont see other people having this problem so I am guessing its just my technique. I can return the ball using my pips but forehand I am struggling. Slow high loops, fast loops no matter how much spin I dont have problems returning. The only shot I can picture where the bounce is low is if I am returning the ball too high and hes looping the ball in a more downward angle but more spin and low speed so the arc is lower hence the kick is low, most people would loop kill or smash the ball but he was probably just messing around. I will try talk to him but his English is not good only been here from china a few days


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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2017, 11:46 
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Yeah that just sounds like an advance loop which is a third ball kill. If the second bounce is off the table you can loop back.

It's a bummer playing these people, but they tend to get tired and will make mistakes

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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2017, 12:34 
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A ball that skims the top of the net then bounces low on your side of the table sounds like a loop with top & sidespin.

When the ball hits your side of the table, does the ball catapult towards you or breaks to your left/right? Try holding your racket perpendicular to the table and just let the ball bounce off of it. How it reacts will tell you how much to angle the racket to block it successfully.


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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 02:33 
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peoples who study physics know that all loops can be return. Body position, equipment, hitting action, etc. You can even return it agressively. The right timing, the right position, the right counter force etc..

I think that countering flat SP killer drive stroke is even much harder because of the absence of the spin effect and the speed effect is even more faster than any inverted rubber. BUT it is still feaseable to conter it.


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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 02:50 
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A loop by a high speed machine will go through your paddle.

Haven't seen a human do this before but there is your answer.

My old newgy robot could spin the ball so much that I wonder if it could be blocked near the table. I suppose it could with the right equipment and enough touch.


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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 15:39 
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maddrag wrote:
peoples who study physics know that all loops can be return.


Really? :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 00:59 
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iskandar,

Do you really thing that it is not possible ? Really :^)

Lets take some different shot that can explain the dip of the ball and low bounce after that.

First if the ball really fall near the net and then bouced very low it need to drop rapidly after the net. So I can see two situations:

1- It is very spinny loop with low speed forward so the ball can then really dip and do a very low bounce after that.

If the ball is slow ( it cant be fast as the ball will not drop as much afterward.) then I can chop block or counter with my LP with a closed racket as the speed is not very high. A P4 can do that, P&H from TSP can do that PR1 can do that. TSP P3 alpha. If I sent it outside then I can fo further from the table and found the right distance or maybe chop it sideway to not be affected that much with the top spin.


2- It is a shot with a ball that high spin and a high arc.

I can just hit through the shot. SP can do that. Some grippy LP also like the P& H or the TSP Alpha. I can do it with millital (MP) with a very closed racket and hit throught the spin.


With inverted FH I can fish it, roll it even lower than the table height (look at panagiotis, weixing) or a very low position ( crunch)to spin it back with a very closed angle like all chinese guys like to do.

It is a bit like saying that no one can handle a huge hit from a boxer. If you stay still while he hit you youre chance is almost zero But with martial art you learn to take the energy of the other and use it for your advantage independantly how strong is the hit.

Im not saying that it is a easy shot as it often unusual for a non professional player.


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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 02:05 
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to all:

To support what all I have said just take a look at the chinese sensation Lin Gaoyuan against Ma long and Xu Xin on you tube. In the chinese tournament ( chinese trial- famous 12) you can see all kind of shot. The spinniest and speediest shot you can see by the chinese player are there :clap:


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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 16:49 
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No, you said something about "people who study physics". I'm waiting for you to prove it to me with the equations. If you said something about "people who study table tennis and watch videos of professional players" I wouldn't have any problems with that.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 02:04 
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Studying physics doesn't mean that it need necessary numbers or equations. It can just explain the action that is taking place by applying it to basics physics rules.

so,..... a ball is being hit with a certain force (producing speed) at a certain angle ( producing spin because of the friction created on the ball )

Physics equation

F (force) = M (mass) x A ( acceleration) ( physic equation)

M= mass of the ball + the mass of the body that hit the ball
A= acceleration of the ball created by the acceleration of the body of the hitter ( Feet, torso, arm, wrist)

To counter this force on the ball you need :

1- to oppose a stronger force and redirecte it on the opposite side of the table. So simply a stronger mass and a stronger acceleration of the counter will do the job. ( counter top spin explain that)

or if you can't have a stronger force than you can

2- Reduce the spin by absorbing the the force ( chop, chop block ) or by not having full contact with the opposing force like doing a side spin. ( chop or top)

of course here the blade and the rubber is in the equation. Some have less friction to the ball some are more absorbant etc...

There is also the force of the air that create friction on the ball that is spinning and making fall or lift depending if it is a top spin or underspin.

You can also add the gravity that create the ball to fall .

I can't draw on that forum but all of this are forces that add or nullify each other.

I hope I succeed to show you a bit of basics physics rule just for fun. :D


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