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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2017, 12:56 
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I was wondering how many finger in the back everyone uses for their c pen grip.
I tried one and usually end up with two. I've seen three for Xu Xin, one for ma lin (I think)

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each.

next is bent vs straight. I'm usually straight but I've seen videos of pros with each


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2017, 17:27 
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Blade: TSP Versal CP
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If I want to play soft extreme spinny loops / counter-loops I tend to switch to Xu Xin style with the 3 fingers spread out evenly on the back of the blade, Xu Xin's grip is not RPB friendly but allows greater touch and brush-loop using the entire body.

For heavy-loop attack similar to Wang Hao since it helps the wrist flick while the RPB has a stable support, but this grip suffers from far-away from table attack, and not enough aggression is possible.

Ma Lin grip is the most versatile in my opinion and I always have this grip when I am playing. I can push aggressively, open with heavy and fast top-spin, serve deceptively, and it works very well to lock the blade angle and unlock it for either RPB or TPB making for extremely quick recovery and surprise attack/block.

Note that as a beginner level player, I keep switching between grips so I am not always playing every ball with the same grip. This is probably a flaw which is why I still have difficulty receiving basic balls like a counter-serve to the BH/FH corner, dead serve to center of the table, long cut serve return ending in the net. So to compensate I keep switching between grips to try keep the ball in the rally.


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2017, 17:30 
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One finger.
Sometimes 2 if I'm winding my wrist back.

Xu Xin is a great player no doubt but his RPB is sh*t compared to WH, Wu JJ, XFei...
Stretching your fingers out like that limits the mobility of your wrist. Not to mention he has extra long fingers so there's hardly any space left for the ball to contact even if he could wind it back.
He doesn't get full range of motion.


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2017, 23:19 
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Most CPen players curl (bend) the fingers at the back of the bat.

The grip depends on a few things:
-one sided CPen? Popular in the 1960's to the 1980's.
-if RPB is used? If traditional penhold backhand (TPB) is used too? Wang Hao doesn't use TPB but Ma Lin and Wang Jian Jun both use RPB and TPB.

Here is a video of Wang Jian Jun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_fpbkzp-7o
This grip is a good grip if you want to use both RPB and TPB.
One finger (middle) with TPB and two fingers (middle and ring) with FH and RPB.

XX's grip with extended fingers is quite "JPen-like" / FH dominant, great for FH looping. It is quite hard on the knuckles, I find.


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 11:09 
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man_iii wrote:
Note that as a beginner level player, I keep switching between grips so I am not always playing every ball with the same grip. This is probably a flaw which is why I still have difficulty receiving basic balls like a counter-serve to the BH/FH corner, dead serve to center of the table, long cut serve return ending in the net. So to compensate I keep switching between grips to try keep the ball in the rally.


I don't think this is terribly uncommon, even with the top players.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 14:59 
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Cool ! So it is okay to keep changing the grip style ? Is there any training to make it more effective :-D

Also, is there any set-plays, like serve underspin, switch to Ma Lin grip, push/flick/open loop down-the-line or cross-table, switch XX grip, play high-spin/high-arc loop, switch to Wang Hao grip, smash with RPB, switch to XX grip do another highspin counter-loop/drive, etc ? :lol: Sounds ridiculously complicated :-P


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 19:32 
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man_iii wrote:
Cool ! So it is okay to keep changing the grip style ? Is there any training to make it more effective :-D

Also, is there any set-plays, like serve underspin, switch to Ma Lin grip, push/flick/open loop down-the-line or cross-table, switch XX grip, play high-spin/high-arc loop, switch to Wang Hao grip, smash with RPB, switch to XX grip do another highspin counter-loop/drive, etc ? :lol: Sounds ridiculously complicated :-P


It's never good to keep switching grips no matter how high level of a player one is. It only adds an extra unwanted variable to modifying ball trajectory.
That said, I sometimes use an "S-Grip" for serving like you'd see Boll do in a game (CPen style by simply unhooking your forefinger from the handle and gripping the opposite side of the bat)



Out of all the examples you listed I'd say switching grip to smash when player is far far away from the table is the only acceptable scenario but not for regular rpb and fh shots.
That's why I'll never learn twiddling no matter how "cool" it looks.


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 20:02 
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Blade: Friendship/729 Z1
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Any good pics for Ma Lin's grip?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 08:08 
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MyTT has a forum post.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_po ... psxx-ml-wh

1. Ma Lin style has a more open Thumb to enable rotating the blade for TBH blocks. Only 1 finger rests flat while the rest curl to give only support.
Xu Fei seems to favor a Ma Lin grip even though he is exclusively RPB.

2. Wang Hao has a much more closed grip with the Thumb and Forefinger joining at the bottom of the handle. 2 Fingers rest on the BH.
Xu Xin, Wong Chun Ting, RPB exclusive players seem to prefer Wang Hao's grip for the power.

3. Xu Xin uses Wang Hao grip but the BH 3 fingers are firmly resting flat on the BH rubber. Very unusual as it reduces the RPB area available.

4. I haven't check Liu Guoliang's, He Zhi Wen's, or Ryu Seung Min's grip as those are more TBH and very less RPB.

My Penhold grip tends to be more above the handle with only my fingertips reaching the rubber. Similarity to Ma Lin's open grip. Only time I grip closer to Wang Hao is when I feel nervous and want to play a lot more control game rather than power game :lol: which is the total opposite of how that grip is supposed to work :rofl: but that is how it works for me :-D


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 14:24 
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Take a look at this video on the penhold grip. Thanks to EmRatThich for the translation.



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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 16:47 
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Dude I am asking for experience and anecdotal advise from existing Penholders like u probably or ppl aware on grip differences. I've seen EmRatThich's videos probably 10 times over already :lol: anyway thanks for the re-link :-)

:lol:


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 18:33 
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man_iii wrote:
My Penhold grip tends to be more above the handle with only my fingertips reaching the rubber.

Yup. I've tried this one too. Excellent for powerful RPB loops but not stable enough for solid blocks.
Speaking of PEN hold, with this grip you can seriously write something if you put some lead at the head of your bat.

I really wanna play around with this grip more, maybe adding weight inside the bat handle for stability or even using a ST handle instead. :up:


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 11:31 
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man_iii wrote:
Dude I am asking for experience and anecdotal advise from existing Penholders like u probably or ppl aware on grip differences. I've seen EmRatThich's videos probably 10 times over already :lol: anyway thanks for the re-link :-)

:lol:


In which case it should be abundantly clear that he says to switch the position of your thumb to execute the backhand... :lol: I figure if it's good enough for the pros it's good enough for the likes of.. er, I can't say "us" (I play shakehands... :lol: )..

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 13:48 
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:lol: But switching the thumb position seems risky ? Since its the thumb that is pressing on the blade to close the angle? Shouldn't I be instead pressing / relaxing the forefinger ? If I press the forefinger to the thumb it becomes the Wang Hao grip, if I loosen the forefinger and press the forefinger to the blade it is the Ma Lin grip :-D

Also for fun I tried shakehand grip, holding the handle with a gap between the hand webbing and the handle... tightening the little finger on the flared part. I just realised I have NO IDEA how to block using shakehand on the BH or the FH :rofl: If I tried C-pen on the shakehand blade it feels and vibrates weirdly. Sensation of jarring impact when the ball hits the rubber :lol:

I use balsa blades and I am so used to feeling the soft impact on the wood. I wonder how much grip, finger tightening, style is affected by blade, make, composition, design, etc.

Could it be that since Ma Lin used soft carbon blades that while having crisp feel that don't vibrate too much have influenced his grip ? While Wang Hao / XX use of much harder wood blades required their grips to be much more tighter ?


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2017, 13:54 
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HuLimei wrote:
man_iii wrote:
My Penhold grip tends to be more above the handle with only my fingertips reaching the rubber.

Yup. I've tried this one too. Excellent for powerful RPB loops but not stable enough for solid blocks.
Speaking of PEN hold, with this grip you can seriously write something if you put some lead at the head of your bat.

I really wanna play around with this grip more, maybe adding weight inside the bat handle for stability or even using a ST handle instead. :up:


Are you suggesting "Secret Chinese Training Technique" if you can paint with a big paint brush Chinese characters on a piece of paper you will become like Chow-Yun Fat in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon ???

Should I tape a pencil to my blade and practice some PEN manship :rofl: :-D
:clap: :lol: :rofl:


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