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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2017, 02:17 
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Yes, it is a sound idea. Every player is required to use rubbers they took from a retailer shop. Factory supply should be banished.


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2017, 13:19 
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I agree ! :clap:


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2017, 13:36 
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Good in theory, but pretty much impossible to implement and police.

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2017, 15:54 
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haggisv wrote:
Good in theory, but pretty much impossible to implement and police.


All that is needed is for each player to provide a list of equipment that they need. ITTF will assemble and provide the racket for practice and competition play at the tourney. Player will buy the setup from ITTF at discount and keep it but cannot reuse in other ITTF tournaments where they will receive a newly built racket :-) Thus randomizing the error rates.

Player will have no chance to "dope" or "transform" their equipment into a super-duper super-soldier weapons.

What is there to complain about ?

Blades, Rubbers and Balls are controlled by ITTF, provided from manufacturers to ITTF specifications, given to players without modifications, no leeway to change or modify equipment is possible in the tourney.

After the tourney player now has a brand-new setup that he din't have to pay full-price on. He gets it cheap so the poor players can afford to spend a bit more on travel / training. None of the top players need to worry about their equipment unless they are cheaters and excessively depend on boosting/doping/speed-gluing. Anyway top players get sponsored. More ppl will willingly buy the expensive stuff since now it will be believable that top player equipment is same as commercial equipment, only difference is ability to use it fully.

No more boosters, speed-glue or other carcinogens in TT. Players don't have to risk getting cancer and death and medical bills due to harmful chemicals for sake of medals/country/politics/pride/extortion/money/etc.

The worst problem here will be defects in manufacturing. ITTF can start penalising the fat-cat manufacturers and patent-holders with heavy fines and revoking licenses for pissant products. ITTF can stop punishing players and start improving the sporting conditions and standards. Which is their whole purpose of existing. Right now ITTF is a corrupt and vile organization that isn't doing anything at all for the players or the sport. Just lining the pockets of big-fat-cats inside and out.


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2017, 19:31 
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man_iii wrote:
All that is needed is for each player to provide a list of equipment that they need. ITTF will assemble and provide the racket for practice and competition play at the tourney. Player will buy the setup from ITTF at discount and keep it but cannot reuse in other ITTF tournaments where they will receive a newly built racket :-) Thus randomizing the error rates.

Player will have no chance to "dope" or "transform" their equipment into a super-duper super-soldier weapons.

What is there to complain about ?

Blades, Rubbers and Balls are controlled by ITTF, provided from manufacturers to ITTF specifications, given to players without modifications, no leeway to change or modify equipment is possible in the tourney.

After the tourney player now has a brand-new setup that he din't have to pay full-price on. He gets it cheap so the poor players can afford to spend a bit more on travel / training. None of the top players need to worry about their equipment unless they are cheaters and excessively depend on boosting/doping/speed-gluing. Anyway top players get sponsored. More ppl will willingly buy the expensive stuff since now it will be believable that top player equipment is same as commercial equipment, only difference is ability to use it fully.

No more boosters, speed-glue or other carcinogens in TT. Players don't have to risk getting cancer and death and medical bills due to harmful chemicals for sake of medals/country/politics/pride/extortion/money/etc.

The worst problem here will be defects in manufacturing. ITTF can start penalising the fat-cat manufacturers and patent-holders with heavy fines and revoking licenses for pissant products. ITTF can stop punishing players and start improving the sporting conditions and standards. Which is their whole purpose of existing. Right now ITTF is a corrupt and vile organization that isn't doing anything at all for the players or the sport. Just lining the pockets of big-fat-cats inside and out.

I like the way you think! :clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 00:46 
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Someone who hit with Timo Boll's paddle claimed the sponge was about 52 degrees in hardness. Does Timo Boll know what it is like to buy Tenergy from the shop?

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 01:53 
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Bizarre. I don't understand the point of this, to be honest. Who CARES what they use, or whether they can get special rubber from the manufacturers? Pro player rubber envy??? Why???? There's so much ELSE to be envious about - Timo Boll's great speed and ball control, for one. Or the millions of Euros he makes playing table tennis. THAT'S worth envy. Why bother about whether you can get the same rubbers he can get??? :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 02:08 
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Whats the fun of being a pro player if you have to use all the same equipment as amateur players :lol:


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 02:18 
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man_iii wrote:
haggisv wrote:
Good in theory, but pretty much impossible to implement and police.


All that is needed is for each player to provide a list of equipment that they need. ITTF will assemble and provide the racket for practice and competition play at the tourney. Player will buy the setup from ITTF at discount and keep it but cannot reuse in other ITTF tournaments where they will receive a newly built racket :-) Thus randomizing the error rates.

Player will have no chance to "dope" or "transform" their equipment into a super-duper super-soldier weapons.

What is there to complain about ?

Blades, Rubbers and Balls are controlled by ITTF, provided from manufacturers to ITTF specifications, given to players without modifications, no leeway to change or modify equipment is possible in the tourney.

After the tourney player now has a brand-new setup that he din't have to pay full-price on. He gets it cheap so the poor players can afford to spend a bit more on travel / training. None of the top players need to worry about their equipment unless they are cheaters and excessively depend on boosting/doping/speed-gluing. Anyway top players get sponsored. More ppl will willingly buy the expensive stuff since now it will be believable that top player equipment is same as commercial equipment, only difference is ability to use it fully.

No more boosters, speed-glue or other carcinogens in TT. Players don't have to risk getting cancer and death and medical bills due to harmful chemicals for sake of medals/country/politics/pride/extortion/money/etc.

The worst problem here will be defects in manufacturing. ITTF can start penalising the fat-cat manufacturers and patent-holders with heavy fines and revoking licenses for pissant products. ITTF can stop punishing players and start improving the sporting conditions and standards. Which is their whole purpose of existing. Right now ITTF is a corrupt and vile organization that isn't doing anything at all for the players or the sport. Just lining the pockets of big-fat-cats inside and out.


Besides being totally impractical and giving a crazy level of control to any organization, let alone the ITTF that can't even manage a website, making a brand new racket every tournament will hamstring players that use rubbers with a bit of a break-in period (such as the Hurricane series, and practically every kind of pips-out rubber). I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to deal with a different blade with slightly different feel all the time, either - a recipe for unwatchable tournaments full of stupid misses.

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 03:38 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Bizarre. I don't understand the point of this, to be honest. Who CARES what they use, or whether they can get special rubber from the manufacturers? Pro player rubber envy??? Why???? There's so much ELSE to be envious about - Timo Boll's great speed and ball control, for one. Or the millions of Euros he makes playing table tennis. THAT'S worth envy. Why bother about whether you can get the same rubbers he can get??? :lol:

Iskandar


I agree about the player envy part :rofl:

But a lot of controversy has built up over the years simply because of the secrecy of PRO equipment vs commercial equipment. And a lot of ppl feel that the PRO level play cannot be accomplished with commercial stuff. This is causing a LOT of players to buy and do dubious things including boosting, doping etc. Where will it end ?

There is a clear-cut reason behind all the FUD and that is ITTF rules which are ambiguous.

Since ITTF caused the mess, we are discussing ways to FORCE ITTF to do the right thing :-)

And some of these "bizarre" solutions benefit players in some way ;-)

Imagine EJ'ing at ITTF tournaments ! I could buy at least 10 to 15 different rackets in a year for cheap! And resell those once I get back home. Any new stuff can be tried out within the same year of release. You could barter/trade with other players and just collect stuff! Because everything is super-cheap at the tournament, lots of players might willingly part with their "personal" equipment :lol:

The whole "I can play like Ma Long" if I got Ma Long's equipment has been thoroughly debunked given that the stuff Chinese use is absolute junk for normal people. But we keep hearing stories about Timo Boll tried Zhang Jike or Wang Hao equipment and it was "Da'Bomb" ! So imagine if Timo played with Ma Long equipment he could easily be Fan ZhenDong ! :rofl:

I AGREE. PRO level equipment is uncontrollable for normal players. But that implies the insane TT prices are nowhere enough to make a normal player into an international TT player :-( And there is a disadvantage right there. Mentally and Economically the ITTF has been undermining TT sport for a long time and it is time for ITTF to stop it.


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 03:43 
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kaesees wrote:
man_iii wrote:
haggisv wrote:
Good in theory, but pretty much impossible to implement and police.


All that is needed is for each player to provide a list of equipment that they need. ITTF will assemble and provide the racket for practice and competition play at the tourney. Player will buy the setup from ITTF at discount and keep it but cannot reuse in other ITTF tournaments where they will receive a newly built racket :-) Thus randomizing the error rates.

Player will have no chance to "dope" or "transform" their equipment into a super-duper super-soldier weapons.

What is there to complain about ?

Blades, Rubbers and Balls are controlled by ITTF, provided from manufacturers to ITTF specifications, given to players without modifications, no leeway to change or modify equipment is possible in the tourney.

After the tourney player now has a brand-new setup that he din't have to pay full-price on. He gets it cheap so the poor players can afford to spend a bit more on travel / training. None of the top players need to worry about their equipment unless they are cheaters and excessively depend on boosting/doping/speed-gluing. Anyway top players get sponsored. More ppl will willingly buy the expensive stuff since now it will be believable that top player equipment is same as commercial equipment, only difference is ability to use it fully.

No more boosters, speed-glue or other carcinogens in TT. Players don't have to risk getting cancer and death and medical bills due to harmful chemicals for sake of medals/country/politics/pride/extortion/money/etc.

The worst problem here will be defects in manufacturing. ITTF can start penalising the fat-cat manufacturers and patent-holders with heavy fines and revoking licenses for pissant products. ITTF can stop punishing players and start improving the sporting conditions and standards. Which is their whole purpose of existing. Right now ITTF is a corrupt and vile organization that isn't doing anything at all for the players or the sport. Just lining the pockets of big-fat-cats inside and out.


Besides being totally impractical and giving a crazy level of control to any organization, let alone the ITTF that can't even manage a website, making a brand new racket every tournament will hamstring players that use rubbers with a bit of a break-in period (such as the Hurricane series, and practically every kind of pips-out rubber). I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to deal with a different blade with slightly different feel all the time, either - a recipe for unwatchable tournaments full of stupid misses.


Meaning that TT equipment manufacturers need to produce already broken-in Hurricane rubbers and better QC on ALL their products and make the SAME materials available to ALL PLAYERS. Not just ppl with deep pockets.


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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 03:38 
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man_iii wrote:
Meaning that TT equipment manufacturers need to produce already broken-in Hurricane rubbers and better QC on ALL their products and make the SAME materials available to ALL PLAYERS. Not just ppl with deep pockets.


What's to prevent them from selling the "already broken in" H3 for $300 a sheet? They'll continue selling the $30 sheets of "ordinary" H3, of course.. but that's still not what ... er, Timo Boll doesn't use H3 anyhow .. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 20:59 
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DHS are on record as saying that it is not possible for them to produce H3 National in large quantities, as it takes a longer time and much more strict quality control. But it is relatively easy to find now, in shops like TT11 as well as the online Chinese sources, if you can and want to afford it.

No way would I trust in the performance of a bat that I'd never used before, put together by someone I didn't know. Or even in the ability of the ITTF to organise and carry this out flawlessly. To say nothing of the reaction of a pro currently using a blade he's had for many years, and which may not even be made anymore.

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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 21:52 
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darucla wrote:
DHS are on record as saying that it is not possible for them to produce H3 National in large quantities, as it takes a longer time and much more strict quality control. But it is relatively easy to find now, in shops like TT11 as well as the online Chinese sources, if you can and want to afford it.

No way would I trust in the performance of a bat that I'd never used before, put together by someone I didn't know. Or even in the ability of the ITTF to organise and carry this out flawlessly. To say nothing of the reaction of a pro currently using a blade he's had for many years, and which may not even be made anymore.


I have played with a racket assembled by the coach, by the shop, etc. Even the racket you order custom assembled by TT11 would be suspect by your reasoning ? Surely we are all not THAT paranoid :lol: If the player is watching with the "ITTF Official Master Gluer" was doing the gluing/assembling, surely it would be vouched by the player+his coach+brief tap with the completely ITTF controlled racket and later on in practice!

If any equipment is as esoteric as being "unique" "one-of-a-kind" then of course the player may produce the racket himself to the ITTF sans-rubber. :lol:

We are having to jump through all these "terrible" ideas simply because ITTF refuses to see reason and perform their raison-d'etre. Instead of playing world politics and megalomaniacal schemes they should purely focus on the management and functioning of TT as a world sport.


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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 21:54 
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iskandar taib wrote:
man_iii wrote:
Meaning that TT equipment manufacturers need to produce already broken-in Hurricane rubbers and better QC on ALL their products and make the SAME materials available to ALL PLAYERS. Not just ppl with deep pockets.


What's to prevent them from selling the "already broken in" H3 for $300 a sheet? They'll continue selling the $30 sheets of "ordinary" H3, of course.. but that's still not what ... er, Timo Boll doesn't use H3 anyhow .. :lol:

Iskandar


Seems like we need ITTF to subsidize the cost of H3 National rubber !!!! :rofl: And the cost of all Butterfly and Tenergy products !!! :lol: :rofl:

I would imagine that ITTF would randomly buy said equipments from the local in-country dealerships and resellers. Any sub-standard product will get the rubber manufacturer in trouble, possible ban, fined heavily, etc.

If all H3 Rubbers became 300 USD per sheet, then who would actually spend the money for that rubber ? Global sales would plummet, most ppl who were swayed by H3 used by Ma Long/FZD/ZJK etc would not readily drop 300 on a H3. Then we will really see which rubber manufacturer guarantees the QC on their product will then really really shine, since all the players are now going to buy that ... just like most players buying Tenergy ! :lol:

If any PRO player needed a guaranteed rubber anywhere in the world, he can trust the Butterfly dealership and get Tenergy with the exact characteristics anywhere in the world. Unless it is fake, which case easily distinguishable. So why can't other rubber manufacturers do the same ?

Only 2 or 3 rubber brands I really trust, Butterfly, Yasaka and probably Xiom. Blades from Nittaku , TSP and again Butterfly/Yasaka/Xiom.

We need the QC and rules of the sport to be reliable to a high standard and degree.

We need to make the sport accessible to all players, within reasonable prices. Else how else will we grow the sport ? We will end up with tiers of players like we have now. Top-level players spend insane amounts getting training, equipment, travel, etc. But the prize money is like peanuts. So only truly talented AND rich players get to the top-levels. Rest of the lower classes have no chance of reaching the pinnacle of the sport.

All these questions and discussions SHOULD BE HAPPENING IN ITTF! :swear:

Instead it is happening in player forums and ITTF is playing world super-power chess and what-have-you.


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