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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 03 Aug 2018, 13:19 
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I’m a long time LP defensive player but the video of play with this rubber looks very interesting & tempting. :?: All my previous attempts at using antis for me have been between poor to hopeless. :swear: :@ But here I go again I’m trying Gigant this new anti by Spinlord.....I do like experimenting :cash: :^) 8)

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Dornenglanz OX red BH
Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Jengking OX red BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Victas V > 01 Limber black 1.8mm FH & Death Metal TT OX red BH
Setup 4: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon |Spinlord Tanuka black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Dornenglanz OX red BH

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 18:35 
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Well I had my first hit with the Gigant today & it was very interesting :clap: boy is it slow but as a long time LP player I hardly had to make any adjustment in using this rubber. :up: As TraditionalTradesman said just hit the ball hard & you get great flat returns then when you have pushed them away from the table you then block with very disruptive effects :*: Early days but looks great 8)

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Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Jengking OX red BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Victas V > 01 Limber black 1.8mm FH & Death Metal TT OX red BH
Setup 4: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon |Spinlord Tanuka black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Dornenglanz OX red BH

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2018, 22:59 
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Gollum wrote:
Well I had my first hit with the Gigant today & it was very interesting :clap: boy is it slow but as a long time LP player I hardly had to make any adjustment in using this rubber. :up: As TraditionalTradesman said just hit the ball hard & you get great flat returns then when you have pushed them away from the table you then block with very disruptive effects :*: Early days but looks great 8)


Hello! I do like experimenting.I could give it a try because this rubber seems to work well with LP strokes.My question is : how do you manage long,fast spinless balls on serves??? . Can you attack with a wrist movement giving rotation to the ball??
Thank you ! :))


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2018, 03:45 
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CHARMANDER DEFENDER wrote:
My question is : how do you manage long,fast spinless balls on serves??? . Can you attack with a wrist movement giving rotation to the ball??


Against fast no-spin serves, you can either attack with a hard straight-on motion w/o wrist (sort of the way the guy shows you how to hit in the video in this thread), or you can do a kind of sideswipe against the back of the ball w/ wrist, generating a funky slightly curved trajectory. The second shot is a bit more tricky for offensive players to handle, it seemed to me. I'd be curious to know how you guys wind up feeling about this rubber. I found that it's too easy for loopers to keeping coming at you again and again due to the lack of spin reversal, I found attacks to be easy but also not that dangerous and I found that you're too much of a sitting duck for flat-hitters.

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I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 18 Aug 2018, 16:29 
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TraditionalTradesman For me it's to early to tell as I've only had one good session with it, what I really like is how you can drive them away from the table then chop/ block the ball just over the net with great control :clap: Very impressed how easily you can take incredible pace off the ball without prior notice :up: At this stage still using my No. 1 set up in competition.

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Dornenglanz OX red BH
Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Jengking OX red BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Victas V > 01 Limber black 1.8mm FH & Death Metal TT OX red BH
Setup 4: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon |Spinlord Tanuka black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Dornenglanz OX red BH

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2018, 07:35 
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The guys at TT-Maximum just posted a video testing out the Gigant and doing some blocking with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCrzxHJVxUk



Frankly, I don't think the guy doing the blocking (who normally plays with long pips and is great with those) is maximizing this rubber's potential because he's taking the ball too late, which is resulting in it landing further out on the opponent's side table than it would if he took it right off the bounce.

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I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 20 Aug 2018, 13:26 
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I only tried it for 5 minutes myself on an Invictus and will merely say that it is the slowest rubber I've ever tried. More importantly though my practice partner today (2050-2100ish FL2 0.5 chopper) would simply not put it down so I got a good 2+ hours playing against it. He took to it right away (in a table hugging, off the bounce style) and was amazingly consistent at blocking everything back, low and often short. It was actually pretty demoralizing as I just could not break through the wall whether looping hard, or flat (better results here if you can manage), anything. He was not trying to attack much at all or do anything fancy - just endless touch blocks off the bounce. The balls are not very weird; there is some reversal and you need to lift it a bit on a reloop, ultimately though the ball just kept dinking back over and over and over and I couldn't beat it today. Winding up on some crazy loop just meant the ball would dink back at me sometimes before I would finish recovering, especially if placed well. Were someone to invest a lot of time in this rubber (even better if mixed with either twiddle and/or athletic step around offense) then I think it has serious potential (sure did in that guys hands anyway). I expect the best results to come from off the bounce touch blocks though - mid/chopping distance doesn't sound threatening because you want a quick (and low, and maybe short, and placed well) return block to give the attacker the least time for their next shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 02:53 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
CHARMANDER DEFENDER wrote:
My question is : how do you manage long,fast spinless balls on serves??? . Can you attack with a wrist movement giving rotation to the ball??


Against fast no-spin serves, you can either attack with a hard straight-on motion w/o wrist (sort of the way the guy shows you how to hit in the video in this thread), or you can do a kind of sideswipe against the back of the ball w/ wrist, generating a funky slightly curved trajectory. The second shot is a bit more tricky for offensive players to handle, it seemed to me. I'd be curious to know how you guys wind up feeling about this rubber. I found that it's too easy for loopers to keeping coming at you again and again due to the lack of spin reversal, I found attacks to be easy but also not that dangerous and I found that you're too much of a sitting duck for flat-hitters.


Thank you !! I will be testing it soon and your info is just what I have been thinking of . I am not used to anti play but by watching videos of the rubber it seems LP strokes are suitable and what you say about spinless balls is what I usually do with my pips .

I think the potential of the rubber is when one twiddles because the rubber becomes too predictable but if one blocks short and then counterattacks, chances are the opponent will be surprised and you get the point. Also, I feel the anti needs a spinny rubber on the FH . Either a spinny inverted or short pip .I will be experimenting . with DMS Breakout and GIgant .

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2018, 11:02 
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Gollum wrote:
TraditionalTradesman For me it's to early to tell as I've only had one good session with it, what I really like is how you can drive them away from the table then chop/ block the ball just over the net with great control :clap: Very impressed how easily you can take incredible pace off the ball without prior notice :up: At this stage still using my No. 1 set up in competition.

I have found that apart from being able to really absorb a tremendous amount of pace off the ball & being able to fool your opposition initially it doesn't last long as you're not giving them much other grief, :whew: :swear: so its staying with my LP & inverted set up! :up:

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Dornenglanz OX red BH
Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Jengking OX red BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Victas V > 01 Limber black 1.8mm FH & Death Metal TT OX red BH
Setup 4: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon |Spinlord Tanuka black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Dornenglanz OX red BH

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2018, 02:14 
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Gollum wrote:
I have found that apart from being able to really absorb a tremendous amount of pace off the ball & being able to fool your opposition initially it doesn't last long as you're not giving them much other grief, :whew: :swear: so its staying with my LP & inverted set up! :up:


Yes, that's pretty much my impression as well. Once a looper adjusts to this rubber, there's not much you can do. It's just not dangerous. Even if you attack with it, it's too easily returnable. And against flat-hitters, you're dead.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
II. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
IV. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2018, 07:09 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
Gollum wrote:
I have found that apart from being able to really absorb a tremendous amount of pace off the ball & being able to fool your opposition initially it doesn't last long as you're not giving them much other grief, :whew: :swear: so its staying with my LP & inverted set up! :up:


Yes, that's pretty much my impression as well. Once a looper adjusts to this rubber, there's not much you can do. It's just not dangerous. Even if you attack with it, it's too easily returnable. And against flat-hitters, you're dead.


It is said that the rubber can block short and absorb strong shots, that´s its strength, right?. Well, then my guess is if one can twiddle and attack with either inverted or short pip, then, the rubber can have a place in the game.If it becomes weak after successive blocks or if the attacks are not dangerous, it means that the rubber on the fh comes into play. As I said some times before, with the banning of frictionless LPS, we cannot rely on just gaining points with the mistakes of the opponent, at least this is true at higher levels.The bottom line is, train your tactics hard and get the maximum benefit from the strenghts of your setup. The easy achievable Superblock point era is gone forever . With ONLY the easy achievable Dornenglanz or Talon or whatever rubber on the market point accomplishment you will never win games at higher levels , meaning, playing against intelligent , skilled atttackers who can easily " read " the performance of a certain rubber is extremely difficult and forces the defender to have variation in the game and to have the need to counterattack at the right moment .


This is my game theory after playing against very intelligent , skilled attackers.The few times I won, it was because I changed the game and of course, I had to counterattack . In the case of flat hitters,one must block short,chop the ball, sidewipe , push the ball with backspin with either inverted or short pip, then, no need to die .... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2018, 22:43 
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Ok, so I bought a sheet of Gigant out of frustration, more than anything, with how i was blocking things too long with the Dtecs on my beloved Innerforce ULC--incidentally, if anyone has one of these with a ST handle, PM me, let's see if we can do a deal! There seems to be a move here in Ireland to the ABS balls, namely the Stiga Perform--a topic long covered over at the Noppen site--where until now virtually every club and tournament has used the Xushofa. I didn't have too much trouble with the XF ball, though as said above, the days of easy winners with the pips was gone for the most part. Not too much of a problem, I thought, as I step around and attack with my FH, scoring most of my points this way. But at a recent tournament where they used the Stiga, an egg--though a round and well made egg, it must be said--if I ever saw one, I found I was getting far less spin than my Grass D needed to work with. Blocks that before would have landed, albeit landed long, w/the XF were sailing off the end of the table. I didn't have a disaster of a day but there were two matches against big loopers that I might have won if my blocks landed. No chance to step around and attack the return if your opponent is picking the ball up from around the barriers...

So, an experiment. The Gigant is...well, wierd. And great, maybe, or maybe not. It was easy to pick up and use from the get go, as a long time LP user, though one has to get used to really bashing through the ball on serve returns and pushes. It is slightly grippy so you don't get the reverse of spin and topspin kick on druckshupt (sic) pushes or attacks BUT by the end of the evening I had discovered that you can attack pushes with a hard fwd motion, resulting in a flat, no spin ball that does indeed cause some trouble on the other side.

The blocks against loops are extremely short and dead and though I didn't play any real loop monsters last night, it was effective in breaking up the pace of the game, resulting in weak pushes that could be attacked etc. As someone above said, any blocks that go long are not dangerous and can be relooped with ease so the trick is placement and dropping the blocks short. (I also believe there might be something to be done to improve the reversal with Armour All as a cleaner but more research is needed here... :rofl: )

I could serve with it fine, though it does not give any of the deceptive absent top spin you get from pacy serves with LPs. I attacked one or two loose balls here and there and they went over, but again, placement not pace will win the points. Interestingly, b/c the Gigant doesn't add much spin--it removes a good bit of it while absorbing the power--you don't get a lot of the backspin I would normally attack with pimples anyway.

Overall, I am still of two minds overall, whether it's high pace blocks putting the looper under pressure a la Dtecs or some of the new frictionless antis, or this way, (the way of the Gigant: dead, slow blocks with placement) that is the way forward. I need to play some high level loopers to get a better sense of things.

Whichever it is, though, the Gigant is something new in TT, and a genuinely innovative attempt to aid at-the-table-blockers in their attempt to regain some of the advantage they have lost to the new ABS balls' lack of spin and greater weight. Fair play to Spinlord. They're thinking outside the box... (Damn it all! I swore I'd never use that phrase!) :swear:


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2018, 01:17 
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kevgeomcc wrote:
Ok, so I bought a sheet of Gigant out of frustration, more than anything, with how i was blocking things too long with the Dtecs on my beloved Innerforce ULC--incidentally, if anyone has one of these with a ST handle, PM me, let's see if we can do a deal! There seems to be a move here in Ireland to the ABS balls, namely the Stiga Perform--a topic long covered over at the Noppen site--where until now virtually every club and tournament has used the Xushofa. I didn't have too much trouble with the XF ball, though as said above, the days of easy winners with the pips was gone for the most part. Not too much of a problem, I thought, as I step around and attack with my FH, scoring most of my points this way. But at a recent tournament where they used the Stiga, an egg--though a round and well made egg, it must be said--if I ever saw one, I found I was getting far less spin than my Grass D needed to work with. Blocks that before would have landed, albeit landed long, w/the XF were sailing off the end of the table. I didn't have a disaster of a day but there were two matches against big loopers that I might have won if my blocks landed. No chance to step around and attack the return if your opponent is picking the ball up from around the barriers...

So, an experiment. The Gigant is...well, wierd. And great, maybe, or maybe not. It was easy to pick up and use from the get go, as a long time LP user, though one has to get used to really bashing through the ball on serve returns and pushes. It is slightly grippy so you don't get the reverse of spin and topspin kick on druckshupt (sic) pushes or attacks BUT by the end of the evening I had discovered that you can attack pushes with a hard fwd motion, resulting in a flat, no spin ball that does indeed cause some trouble on the other side.

The blocks against loops are extremely short and dead and though I didn't play any real loop monsters last night, it was effective in breaking up the pace of the game, resulting in weak pushes that could be attacked etc. As someone above said, any blocks that go long are not dangerous and can be relooped with ease so the trick is placement and dropping the blocks short. (I also believe there might be something to be done to improve the reversal with Armour All as a cleaner but more research is needed here... :rofl: )

I could serve with it fine, though it does not give any of the deceptive absent top spin you get from pacy serves with LPs. I attacked one or two loose balls here and there and they went over, but again, placement not pace will win the points. Interestingly, b/c the Gigant doesn't add much spin--it removes a good bit of it while absorbing the power--you don't get a lot of the backspin I would normally attack with pimples anyway.

Overall, I am still of two minds overall, whether it's high pace blocks putting the looper under pressure a la Dtecs or some of the new frictionless antis, or this way, (the way of the Gigant: dead, slow blocks with placement) that is the way forward. I need to play some high level loopers to get a better sense of things.

Whichever it is, though, the Gigant is something new in TT, and a genuinely innovative attempt to aid at-the-table-blockers in their attempt to regain some of the advantage they have lost to the new ABS balls' lack of spin and greater weight. Fair play to Spinlord. They're thinking outside the box... (Damn it all! I swore I'd never use that phrase!) :swear:


I absolutely agree with all you have said.That's the reason why I will be testing Gigant,for short blocks, counterattack, placement and twiddling!!!!

Well done!!!! The Flanti route is expensive. I won't fall prey to DMS or D.Neubauer abusive prices!!!.Why does the Ittf ban frictionless Los but allows Flantis,which are more dangerous???

It is all about the war between the doc and a member of the Ittf.For that very reason we,Lp users,are on the regrettable receiving end.Amen!!!! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2018, 01:33 
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CHARMANDER DEFENDER wrote:
kevgeomcc wrote:
Ok, so I bought a sheet of Gigant out of frustration, more than anything, with how i was blocking things too long with the Dtecs on my beloved Innerforce ULC--incidentally, if anyone has one of these with a ST handle, PM me, let's see if we can do a deal! There seems to be a move here in Ireland to the ABS balls, namely the Stiga Perform--a topic long covered over at the Noppen site--where until now virtually every club and tournament has used the Xushofa. I didn't have too much trouble with the XF ball, though as said above, the days of easy winners with the pips was gone for the most part. Not too much of a problem, I thought, as I step around and attack with my FH, scoring most of my points this way. But at a recent tournament where they used the Stiga, an egg--though a round and well made egg, it must be said--if I ever saw one, I found I was getting far less spin than my Grass D needed to work with. Blocks that before would have landed, albeit landed long, w/the XF were sailing off the end of the table. I didn't have a disaster of a day but there were two matches against big loopers that I might have won if my blocks landed. No chance to step around and attack the return if your opponent is picking the ball up from around the barriers...

So, an experiment. The Gigant is...well, wierd. And great, maybe, or maybe not. It was easy to pick up and use from the get go, as a long time LP user, though one has to get used to really bashing through the ball on serve returns and pushes. It is slightly grippy so you don't get the reverse of spin and topspin kick on druckshupt (sic) pushes or attacks BUT by the end of the evening I had discovered that you can attack pushes with a hard fwd motion, resulting in a flat, no spin ball that does indeed cause some trouble on the other side.

The blocks against loops are extremely short and dead and though I didn't play any real loop monsters last night, it was effective in breaking up the pace of the game, resulting in weak pushes that could be attacked etc. As someone above said, any blocks that go long are not dangerous and can be relooped with ease so the trick is placement and dropping the blocks short. (I also believe there might be something to be done to improve the reversal with Armour All as a cleaner but more research is needed here... :rofl: )

I could serve with it fine, though it does not give any of the deceptive absent top spin you get from pacy serves with LPs. I attacked one or two loose balls here and there and they went over, but again, placement not pace will win the points. Interestingly, b/c the Gigant doesn't add much spin--it removes a good bit of it while absorbing the power--you don't get a lot of the backspin I would normally attack with pimples anyway.

Overall, I am still of two minds overall, whether it's high pace blocks putting the looper under pressure a la Dtecs or some of the new frictionless antis, or this way, (the way of the Gigant: dead, slow blocks with placement) that is the way forward. I need to play some high level loopers to get a better sense of things.

Whichever it is, though, the Gigant is something new in TT, and a genuinely innovative attempt to aid at-the-table-blockers in their attempt to regain some of the advantage they have lost to the new ABS balls' lack of spin and greater weight. Fair play to Spinlord. They're thinking outside the box... (Damn it all! I swore I'd never use that phrase!) :swear:


I absolutely agree with all you have said.That's the reason why I will be testing Gigant,for short blocks, counterattack, placement and twiddling!!!!

Well done!!!! The Flanti route is expensive. I won't fall prey to DMS or D.Neubauer abusive prices!!!.Why does the Ittf ban frictionless Los but allows Flantis,which are more dangerous???

It is all about the war between the doc and a member of the Ittf.For that very reason we,Lp users,are on the regrettable receiving end.Amen!!!! :lol:


Well put, Charmander. I agree, though I'm not sure even frictionless pips of old would work terribly well with the ABS ball either.

And I had another session with the Gigant today, against some serious hitters/loopers. And...by the end of the session I'd whacked my Dtecs back on. Everything I said yesterday still applies--it remains a fine, wicked slow, disruptive rubber--but with two caveats. One: slow, spinny loops. The players I played both had trouble against the Gigant in the 1st couple of sets. By the 3rd, they both started slowing things down, adding spin rather than pace. The grip on the Gigant then kicked in, returning slow spinny loops high, allowing my opponents to finish things off with ease. There is no real reversal on spins and as mentioned before, the blocks are harmless if they go long or high. So the pace is grand but the grip is a problem and clever/good players will figure this rubber out quick enough. Serving is also harmless, i felt.

I guess I'm just gonna have to use a softer touch with the ol' Dtecs from here on out. It's frustrating but not surprising. Still, I think Spinlord deserves real kudos for the Gigant, despite it not suiting me. They are trying something new here. It didn't suit me but it might suit some. It will cause havoc at lower levels, I'd imagine.

Ps. I will lash some Armour All on it and give it one more go. A 'cleaned and polished' version of the Gigant might just work...I shall report back.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlord Gigant
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2018, 10:13 
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BH: Zeitgeist OX
By the 3rd, they both started slowing things down, adding spin rather than pace.



I think you are very right in what you say, however, I was able to play some sets with a Superblock of a friend of mine and still causes many more problems for the opponent than any current Lp.It is not only about the strong reversal,it is also about low wobbling balls etc .

Yes, Spinlord is trying something different but it still seems it is not enough so close to the table defenders can continue living on the mistakes from the reversal or weird wobbling balls.That seems to have got lost forever.

The future of us ,close to the table defenders appears to be tactics, twiddling,low trajectories,low short blocks and counterattack.That's all folks!! Forget about reversal as the basis for points or else out of desperation fall prey to boost the rubber illegally,which is so tempting given the poor scenario left for close to the table defense.

The bottom line is : find a setup in which you have more advantages than disadvantages and just work on the flaws of the rubber ,as you very well said: think outside the box and reinvent yourself!!

:lol:


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