OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 16 Jul 2018, 04:51


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: 16 Apr 2018, 07:48 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 08:48
Posts: 116
Location: USA
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Blade: Stiga Sense 7.6 Penhold
FH: DHS C8 Ox
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Ranger-man wrote:
Hi there. Love reading your ramblings since I am a penholder myself so I love reading anything to do with the subject. I watched the first video in which you were doping the fh/bh returns to the robot, and then the video in which you were doing serves. I know others have already given you a lot of input so perhaps what I am going to say is redundant but I will say it anyway. :)

The first video, against the robot. Yes, you need to get a bit of whip in your arm action, which will come with practice but I wanted to mention something else. You obviously know where the next ball is going to land so I see you shuffling across and then waiting. I would advise speeding the robot up so you don't have time to do that even if you know where the next ball is coming. This will make it more realistic and a better workout and practice. Either that, or set the motion to random if the robot has it so you don't where the next ball is coming.

Now for the serves vid. Two things I noticed, and I could be wrong so I apologize in advance if that is the case.
1. I felt you are serving over the table - it appeared that way to me - and I would advise that you move back so that what you practice is not only legal, but it will also let you lower the point of contact.
2. Hold only one ball in your hand, on the palm, and toss it higher - right now your toss is not high enough - so again, you practice what you will be doing in a game and also what is legal. You can place the extra balls on a stool next to the table on your side so you can reach in without moving if you want.

Good luck and keep the posts coming. :clap:


I'm glad someone especially a fellow penholder loves reading these.

I agree 100% with what you said. The robot speed in the video was on the slow side because I just wanted to show my play, but I've had some issues in the past (feet/arm soreness) with fast speeds. I will need to experiment again and find the right speed, maybe not practicing it for too long.

I have suspected myself that I serve over the table. I will move back next time. The ball toss is definitely not high enough. I'm going to practice FH serves again in the next week...maybe shovel serve like Xu Xin, since it's quite common among penholders. I haven't had much luck with it last time but I just have to endure a little longer until I can use it in matches.

_________________
USATT 1477.
Long pips blocker/hitter, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 11:08 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 08:48
Posts: 116
Location: USA
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Blade: Stiga Sense 7.6 Penhold
FH: DHS C8 Ox
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Today I played doubles at work after a long (for me) hiatus. I didn't play very well and lost both matches. I was teamed up with the best player who played well and against our usual foes, so there's no excuse. Not terrible play, but could be better.

I still do not have a lot of confidence in my FH given recent experiences and that I haven't ramped up my practice. It wasn't as bad as Saturday, and was looking up in the 2nd match, but overall I lacked the looping feel to put lowish balls over the net. RPB was again stellar...I didn't miss much and almost all instant winners. But I only use it when I'm out of position as RPB is the natural and only solution there.

As soon as I stood at my doubles spot I felt like I had to rely on my FH and TPB. Ah the pressure...I shall start RPBing more when it's not doubles tho.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last night, I realized the right way to loop based on recent feedback.

I need to start with my arm relaxed and relatively straight, and end with it in the salute position around my head.

The natural way to do this is whip the arm, but also CHANGE THE ANGLE between upper arm and forearm. The latter I read on some forums before, but Wu Jingping (Ma Lin/Wang Hao's coach) stressed it in a video.

Without the CHANGE THE ANGLE part, I either end up with straight arm the whole way, or bent arm the whole way like in my last videos. Straight arm provides good power and I think is still applicable for farther balls (I think Ma Lin/RSM do this a lot), but won't work if not enough space esp for amateurs. Bent arm lacks power and is a bit rigid.

But if I change the angle naturally as I whip, I can loop balls of different distances.

Anyway, took some practice videos:



I think I did better with the whipping around the middle of the vid. The sound of the ball is different if I whip it right. Overall I had more power than last time.

I tried to stay as low and use as much twisting as I can, it still looks weaker than I thought. :P

I don't think my loops have strong spin, we'll see if practice changes that.




This is against pretty strong backspin from robot. I felt like I was able to use some legs here but it wasn't evident in the video.

I felt like I was hitting it very hard, but it didn't look as fast in the vid. On the other hand, the net clearance and overall curvature seemed better than from my angle.

I'm not sure if my loops are "spin loops" or "loop drives" - same in TV commentary, sometimes they say Xu Xin "spin loops" too much and needs to loop drive more like Ma Lin. To me, it seems like if the trajectory is flatter it's a loop drive.

I attempted some slow spin loops at the end, which looked like I used more arm..

A few potential issues I noticed:
* I am contacting the ball more to my side rather than the front. Chinese coaches talk about "moving forward" using body power to loop a lot. I have done this in the past but not consistently. Need to start doing this again

* I'm using some waist power which is a good start, but not much legs yet. Not likely to really look like a pro but worth moving in that direction.

* The ball is a bit too close to my body. Need more room for max power.

Lastly, I'm starting to think I may need replace my FH rubber (still Skyline 2). It's been over a year old and noticed some slippage (or just poor technique lately, replace anyway...)

_________________
USATT 1477.
Long pips blocker/hitter, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 13:28 
Offline
I am Legend
I am Legend
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 18:21
Posts: 5985
Location: Queensland
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Blade: Nittaku Acoustic
FH: Double Crappiness H8
BH: Donic Bluefire JP03
1) At this point you should be contacting the ball beside you, not in front of you. You will naturally start contacting in front of you especially when you start hitting much much harder. Try to contact when it's about a handspan forward of your body parallel to the table

2) I have a feeling you are pivoting off the back foot and stepping the front foot backwards (it's hard to tell). Move your weight forwards onto your front foot as you contact the ball. If you need to step your front foot prior to contact to help weight shift. Don't bother moving your back foot through right now, just focus on shifting weight. As per #1, when you start hitting harder your foot will start to follow through.

3) Yes you are contacting a bit too close to your body. Watch the difference between your #1 and #2 video - #2 you are contacting maybe a handspan further away from your body. Contacting further away will also give you space to change direction too.

_________________
Shih Tzu

NEW RUBBER MASS INDEX || OLD RUBBER MASS INDEX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2018, 14:47 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 08:48
Posts: 116
Location: USA
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Blade: Stiga Sense 7.6 Penhold
FH: DHS C8 Ox
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Yeah. You're a good coach. I noticed I pivot around my right foot too and experimented with what you said. I had a bad knee then.

I was basically half assing knowingly until i want to win more.

This sounds all a plan coming together. Fixing the stroke will maybe help with that knee :)

_________________
USATT 1477.
Long pips blocker/hitter, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Apr 2018, 08:04 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 08:48
Posts: 116
Location: USA
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Blade: Stiga Sense 7.6 Penhold
FH: DHS C8 Ox
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
I started playing with an old setup (Sense 7.6/Red Super Anti/Black H3N) again trying to minimize footwork, because my right knee has become a (minor) chronic issue. Except the Anti is now on my FH.

So I stand in the middle close-to-table playing a kinda all-around style. Mainly using the Anti on both wings to block/drive/drop shot etc. Sometimes I step around a bit and hit one, and RPB loop/push. I serve with RPB.

Hasn't been hard to get used to the Anti so far.

Things I like:
* Don't have to worry about spin anymore when I return serves
* People I don't play a lot with probably can't get used to Anti
* More relaxed style overall, may improve my control

Issues:
* Spin reversal doesn't look strong like LP (which I have experience playing against but not with). When I block or chop-block drives from TPB, the backspin generated isn't enough to even deter weaker players once they are familiar. It probably has stronger backspin against good loops, but I don't play with those players often. This is the #1 issue right now, as redirecting blocks isn't my strong suit.

* Hits on FH side against non-backspin balls are not easy. I'm able to increase consistency at the expense of power, which makes the shot easier to return. This is probably not a bad thing if it forces me to work on placement.

Another thing I noticed is I don't win by as much against weaker/same level players, but probably have a better chance against players I've had some trouble with, if I can neutralize their attack/spin advantage. Only time can tell though.

_________________
USATT 1477.
Long pips blocker/hitter, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 May 2018, 10:32 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 08:48
Posts: 116
Location: USA
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Blade: Stiga Sense 7.6 Penhold
FH: DHS C8 Ox
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
I'm going to try long pips (C8 Ox) soon. See updates in viewtopic.php?f=17&t=32890

Brief update on today:
Played 3 doubles matches with the strong player as partner again. Lost the first one quickly as he made a lot of errors and I wasn't being very aggressive. Second one (a repeat) went the distance but able to win with us performing normally. Third one again a close win against familiar foes from last time. Wasn't very nervous with the anti, and did well in deciding games.


Today I was a bit down at work and had some stray thoughts, so I'm going to take a new approach and talk about some things I don't usually touch on. :angel:

In (Chinese?) TT jargon there are 3 crucial elements:
1. Power (speed of the ball)
2. Spin
3. Quickness

I would consider myself decent in power/quickness but not spin. Recurring themes are:
* I can serve well in practice, but in matches I lose my touch or become a bit afraid of missing
* Strong incoming spin always makes me a bit uneasy, or feel like my hands are tied at worst
* Repeating drills can build muscle memory to handle topspin or backspin, but NOT both at same time
* I hate receiving good serves more than any other aspect.

TTEdge helps to some degree, but I'm not particularly enjoying it either... SO, I really think the move to anti/LP is the right one. Give them back whatever spin they put on, or just kill it :lol: I know it's not that simple, but it definitely makes handling spin somewhat easier, and countless folks have taken this road.

As amateurs, ultimately we do what we enjoy most. How good our strokes look etc. probably should not be very high on the list. Health is paramount... this is something I sort of figured out when I was out with the bad knee. I'll no longer try to be a looper to win, though I will still practice from time to time.

And about defensive styles, I'm finally starting to see how it can be super effective until quite a bit above my level. A lot of amateurs do miss a lot, needless to say. With a little (or a lot) of help from our funky rubbers and tactics, we can make them very uncomfortable and hand us games. :lol:

Back to the earlier crucial elements, some others less mentioned ones are:
4. Placement - not really my strong suit, for some reason I either try to be safe, or just slam/loop hard at my favorite angle; some improvement with anti tho (drop shots etc.)
5. Accuracy/consistency - pretty decent against normal opponents but over aggression can harm this
6. Aggressiveness - pretty good
7. Adaptability - not sure, maybe average. I usually do play better at deciding games when I turn up my level and think some about tactics.
8. Psych - I lose a lot of game 2's, must be a combo of lapse of energy and lack of belief/changing tactics. Some minor choking at pivotal points but not more than the typical guy.

Looking at the overall list, the one thing that stands out a bit at odds with defensive styles is aggressiveness. Like today at doubles, if I'm too passive we lose. I believe this is why I'm going to be a pushblocker looking to hit at the opportune moments, with LP or anti.

Another thing is that drives definitely don't feel as sexy as loops (does anyone object? :D ), so I'm hoping the LP will add more character in terms of its weirdness. I have a feeling it may not be easy at the beginning tho, as I'll need to make the pips fall a certain way. But it's worth trying even if I end up going back to anti

_________________
USATT 1477.
Long pips blocker/hitter, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2018, 10:14 
Offline
Senior member
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jan 2018, 08:48
Posts: 116
Location: USA
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Blade: Stiga Sense 7.6 Penhold
FH: DHS C8 Ox
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
First official tournament discussed in viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33021

Since then I have not played as much. Went to the club one time, was slightly off that day and lost to a guy that I thought I could beat. (Credit to him tho...he has GREAT serves that even LP 'eats'.)

Been practicing FH hits more and found that I can do 'loops' (just the movement) that have similar effects to my old 'amateur' loops - definitely no spin and worse consistency, but spin has never been my strong suit.

Haven't practiced as much due to other commitments. Played today at work...won 2 singles matches without losing a game. But.... :rofl: one was a comeback down 6-10 and 2 were 11-9. Lost a close one in doubles, didn't do great hitting winners, but partner missed a lot of my setups in second game.

* In singles the guys don't have much trouble in the first game, unlike at the tourney. Three words: LACK OF SPIN
* My twiddling is a little rusty so I serve RPB. Been pretty decent. The lighter paddle and looser grip have helped my serves.
* Calm style, has helped a lot with nerves. It's almost a bit 'passive aggressive' |(
* Did hit some FH and BH winners

LP has absolutely decreased the technicality and excitement, but I enjoy winning :devil:

_________________
USATT 1477.
Long pips blocker/hitter, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: