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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 02:53 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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Def-attack wrote:
New test
http://youtu.be/DOjV7mpgg7M

Skickat från min SM-T580 via Tapatalk


Judging by the fact that his opponent has to loop through the return, it looks like he's getting a nice little bit of reversal there, though I'd be interested to see how the return of those loops would look if he did some blocking right off the bounce rather than past the end-line of the table.

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II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 03:00 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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Has anyone had a chance to try this rubber and form any views of it? I see from our German friends on noppen-test.de (which I occasionally grance through using the magic of Google Translate) that there seems to be some disagreement about whether the 1.9mm or 1.5mm version is better. The videos from Croudy and the TT-Maximum folks appear to have used the 1.9mm version for testing, and there seems to be some consensus that the 1.9mm version is better for dampening due to the thicker dampening sponge, but then some people prefer the 1.5mm version, though I'm not sure why...since the "magic" of Google Translate is not yet quite at Gandalf level. If anyone has any thoughts ...?

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II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 16:09 
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You have the gist of it right. They think the 1.9 is very controllable but not very dangerous. There is some indication that blocks with the 1.5 have more spin reversal. It is the same with many antis I read about. The more sponge the greater control but less disturbing effect.
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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 01:20 
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Bulldog wrote:
You have the gist of it right. They think the 1.9 is very controllable but not very dangerous. There is some indication that blocks with the 1.5 have more spin reversal. It is the same with many antis I read about. The more sponge the greater control but less disturbing effect.
Bulldog

Let me clarify one thing here since I read all the stuff on Noppentest, the Super Stop does not give you any spin reversal at all since it's a classic anti and not frictionless. One guy commented that the 1.9 has more dampening effect and more control like you said and that the 1.5 had more disruptive effect though he didn't say in what way.

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 03:49 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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Matt Pimple wrote:
Let me clarify one thing here since I read all the stuff on Noppentest, the Super Stop does not give you any spin reversal at all since it's a classic anti and not frictionless. One guy commented that the 1.9 has more dampening effect and more control like you said and that the 1.5 had more disruptive effect though he didn't say in what way.


Yes, Google Translate managed to convey to me that it's more a classic anti, so there shouldn't be any expectation that you're going to get any real spin reversal going on (in the sense of transforming topspin into underspin through a passive block), though I count transforming topspin into a dead ball (which I DO expect from the Super Stop) as just a lower amount of spin reversal.

With the new ball, no untreated long pips manage to create very much real spin reversal either on a passive block, and I know people have been questioning how effective even frictionless anti rubbers are with the new ball, so to me, the real question is whether a classic anti that manages to significantly dampen a looped ball and block it short and with which you can attack underspin and handle no-spin balls could be a good solution.

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I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 04:08 
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I've been playing with Super Stop 1.5mm on a TSP Trinity Carbon for a couple of weeks and you can get spin reversal off it but definitely not from a passive block.

My coach was actually remarking that there was a fair amount of spin reversal when I punched off the bounce against a topspin ball but when I switched to my other bat with Cropcircles OX the difference was huge.

My impression is that this is a fun to play with rubber that gives consistent play but which makes you a sitting duck against a decent player once they adjust to the flight. Some opponents will struggle against it but they would probably be tied up in knots against OX long pimples.

I play close to the table and 30 years ago (before a long break from the game) I played with anti on my backhand which gave me consistency so I could run round and attack with my forehand. I'm really not convinced that is possible with the new ball because the anti is so much easier to attack.

It is fun to play with though!


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 02:11 
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I tried the Super Stop yesterday for the first time. Keep in mind that I know what I'm doing with OX long pips, I have never played with anti but figured I'd give this a try since the claim was that the changeover to this rubber isn't that hard. I could see potential, but I could also see that if I were to chose to stick with this -- probably won't -- it would entail a significant adjustment of my technique. First, though this video review of this rubber posted earlier in this thread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GmqW36ijZQ&t=211s) had suggested that a passive block could be played, I found that when I simply tried to use my long pips off-the-bounce passive block technique to block strong loops, they would simply die in the net. The dampening sponge was doing its work a bit too well. When I caught the ball a bit later, that seemed to work better but also resulted in an easier return for my opponent. So perhaps the key is to do the block off the bounce but open the racket angle a bit more. Having not played anti, as I said, I don't know, but I'll try this next time. I did notice, however, that when I did get loops back, re-looping wasn't always easy for my opponent (a 2100 looper). He outright missed many balls. When he tried to push it back, it open fell into the bottom of the net. I don't think this was due to some massive amount of spin reversal so much as it was due to an unexpected trajectory, and because of that, when he had a bit of time to adjust, he started attacking more effectively, which is, I suspect, what most people will be able to do once they adjust to this thing ... unless, of course, I can consistently produce a very-short block.

Attacks off of pushes were very effective. After a brief period of adjustment, I figured out that I can just plow straight through the ball, and as long as I don't try to graze it in any way but come right at it, I can produce an attack that's faster and more aggressive than with OX long pips.

I did some long-distance chopping, and that seems to work. Not a massive amount of spin, but the balls stays low, producing, again, some awkward trajectories.

Afterwards, I played some games against a 1500 player, and of course, I made a bunch of unforced errors in using my long pips techniques with this thing. I was consistently able to attack more aggressively than with long pips, but I didn't have nearly the same touch, naturally, and when the guy looped, I was still netting many of my block attempts.

Will keep at it for a bit more to see if I can get the hang of it ... but for anyone who's a long pips user who thinks they can just pick this thing up and play at nearly the same level without a bunch of training and adjustments ... no.

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I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2018, 02:43 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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So had another chance to train with the Super Stop, and practicing for a few hours against a defender, I seem to have gotten the hang of attacking against underspin and no-spin. The most important part, however, will be seeing if I can figure out how to handle this thing against loopers.

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I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2019, 14:09 
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Did you experiment any further with this rubber?

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2019, 23:30 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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Yes, I thought I had posted my ultimate conclusions, but apparently I forgot to do so. I found, in the end, that any decent looper could tee off on this thing too easily. The lack of spin reversal means you're relying entirely on trying to keep the ball very short, and you can't do that consistently enough against good loops. The rubber attacks very well, and you need to keep attacking at every opportunity to make up for the lack of effective defense, but the attacks, unlike pips attacks, aren't very dangerous, and most competent attackers quickly figured out that they could drive the ball back at me pretty easily. So I think, ultimately, this rubber, which is very easy to learn to play with, is unfortunately only effective at rather low playing levels. Beyond, say, U.S. 1500, it becomes too predictable and toothless.

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I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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