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 Post subject: OX Medium Pip Hitting!?
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 02:39 
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While I like the frictionless anti and some of the slicker long pips, I find the style just a bit too passive for my bloodlust most of the time! It was a wrist injury that forced me to use the passive blocking style, and now with that going away, I'm transitioning back to a more aggressive backhand. Though I doubt I'll ever return to the heavy wrist flexion required for banana flicks etc.

With that rambling out of the way, I have been enjoying the super do knuckle medium pip in OX for an aggressive hitting game at the table. I've not really come across any other OX medium pip hitters, especially not any on a high/pro level. But perhaps there are... anyone know of any?

I guess some close ones are Haruna F. and guo jianshang (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMMo9bhVI5g), though not sure of Guo's rubber. And Xian Ni (sorry for butchering the name... she's the penhold hitter with curl PH ox).

The rubbers used are not very good for passive blocking, as they don't really reverse spin. You need active hits with them, or perhaps a chop-block against really heavy spin at times when crowding the table. I think it's a difficult style overall, as you don't have much spin or slow-down effect to help bring the ball down. Against backspin, they work very similar to LP wherein you can really smack the ball hard.

However, they have more grip than the slicker LPs (not stuff like feint long 3 etc.), so you can also attack against top spin balls -- an area where LP blockers were dead in the water most of the time. So you can and need to be aggressive more often than with LP or anti.

Anywho, it's my preferred style since it allows for a decent amount of deception and blocking when required, but with more than enough firepower to really tee off! I don't think the sponged versions would be overly similar, as they'd grip the ball a bit too much. Anyone play this style or something similar?

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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 03:17 
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What do you think are the main pros and cons of using medium pips in OX as compared to sponge.

In another post a member was enthusing over switching to aggressor in OX from 1.5 so.

The main problem I am finding with medium type pips with sponge on the BH is dealing with slowish low spin balls. Against fast top spin they are great for blocking but when you have to create speed and spin or hit low back spin pushes not so good.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 03:42 
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ChasFox wrote:
What do you think are the main pros and cons of using medium pips in OX as compared to sponge.

In another post a member was enthusing over switching to aggressor in OX from 1.5 so.

The main problem I am finding with medium type pips with sponge on the BH is dealing with slowish low spin balls. Against fast top spin they are great for blocking but when you have to create speed and spin or hit low back spin pushes not so good.



Coming from anti/LP, I like the OX better as it has less spin sensitivity. I still can't do too many 'flick' type movements with my wrist, or the injury flares up again (tendons). So I need to be able to hit straight through with a stiff wrist. With the OX medium pips, that shot is still possible or it might require a slight upward movement at times. For me personally, that is my main reason for OX.

The sponged version are of course better for hitting against top spin/no spin balls, as they allow you to create more spin. The margin for error is higher, but less disruptive. It's more of the ai fukahara style of medium pip attacks. The OX is similar, though the returns have less spin and more "effect" on them. There you have the classic trade off... effect vs control. And with sponged medium pips, I think you have to be even more active as passive blocks, unless well angled/receiving a lot of pace, are relatively tame - especially if that is your main technique. Same thing with the ox to a degree, but you can do the chop-block or side swipes easier.

Low spin balls (below net height) are still the hardest to deal with, but not a huge problem. Depending on your MP you should be able to get enough spin on the ball to get it back over the net and on the table. The biggest thing there for me is to not over-hit. Just angle it well and put enough pace on the ball to avoid being a sitting duck.

OX pros:

Easier to hit against back spin
Give a bit more "disruption"
Less spin sensitivity, easier serve return

Cons:

Harder to attack top spin and no spin balls consistently
Slower when attacking

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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 16:02 
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Great reply thank you.
Having recently bought a sheet of Gipfelsturm in 1.5mm black which I am most disappointed with, I think I will try and remove the sponge and try in OX. Hopefully it will then give more feel and deception.


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2018, 09:03 
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ChasFox wrote:
Great reply thank you.
Having recently bought a sheet of Gipfelsturm in 1.5mm black which I am most disappointed with, I think I will try and remove the sponge and try in OX. Hopefully it will then give more feel and deception.


I've used the gipfelsturm as well, and also didnt care for it initially. It plays like a hybrid sp/lp and is tough to adjust to. At the time, I liked using it for hitting through back spin which I thought it did well. It wasn't overly consistent when attacking top spins for me in 1.8 sponge even.

In ox it probably plays more like a long pip. The problem with rubbers that try to be both lp and sp... is that they fail at both ends! Those are really only good for hitting and some blocking. Not much reversal and not enough grip to power through other spins. You really need a flat stroke for them to work.

Similar to what I use in super do knuckle. Very punchy strokes while keep the same angle. I don't have the patience or skill to win higher levels with the lp blocking alone, so I wanted something with just enough grip to hit top spin and keep the speed high. But the balls are basically all no spins, aside from chop blocks and such. I win more by using speed and placement, with some disruption effects, but I don't rely on those.

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2018, 03:29 
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Given up on Gipfelsturm OX as the sponge does not separate easily if at all.

You are dead right about it being a blocking rubber. I have loaned the TSP 2.5 with the Gipfelsturm 1.5mm to a work colleague who basically punch blocks everything on his b/h and he loves it. I have gone back using Keiler 1.2mm on my black balsa 4.0 and it allows me much greater shot variety with more feel, it being basically a disruptive medium spin sp.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2018, 06:29 
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ChasFox wrote:
Given up on Gipfelsturm OX as the sponge does not separate easily if at all.

You are dead right about it being a blocking rubber. I have loaned the TSP 2.5 with the Gipfelsturm 1.5mm to a work colleague who basically punch blocks everything on his b/h and he loves it. I have gone back using Keiler 1.2mm on my black balsa 4.0 and it allows me much greater shot variety with more feel, it being basically a disruptive medium spin sp.


That's what I would think too. If you are more of a hitter/aggressive sort, then I'd start with sp and work down until there's just enough grip left on it to attack well with. And if you passive block, probably just sticking with lp or anti.

For me the threshold is right at curl ph when it comes to hitting and sending back dead balls. The super do knuckle has less grip and is harder to control, though it sends back essentially the same kind of ball. I've used keilar also and classify that as a hitter. Similar to 563 1. Much closer to sp than to lp.

If you want to hit then you need the grip to control it... which takes away the lp effect and at best will result in a dead ball. And that seems to be good enough when playing, having inverted or sp for change of spins on the other side. More of the miao miao or AI fukahara style game.

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