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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 09:30 
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pgpg wrote:
apophis wrote:
haggisv wrote:
Great for Japanese table tennis, should give them a real boost! :up: :up: :up:

It does make me wonder though... if this were to happen to say Australia or USA, where the sport of TT has a quite low profile compared to other sports, what would happen? Would it give a sudden boost to the sport? I guess funding would get a boost as the country would have a real chance of getting future medals... but not sure what else...


I honestly think it would do nothing to the national recognition of TT in Oz as there is no vested interests that have large investments in the sport. The US would I imagine be similar although the USATT do have some decent investors in Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and they have a much better marketing approach to anything i've seen locally. Also, 300 million people vs 23 million in population. Market size makes a difference here too.


Huh? That's news to me... Citation?


I remember reading that they had put some funding into USATT, I believe for junior development in particular, I will see if I can dredge up the article though being a few years old I cant promise i will find it.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 11:19 
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it is very funny to see that at the same time the medium Pips are also changing. The trends is toward the Sp carateristics with strong and fast block, flat hit and counter that have some LP flavors so the hits woobles, nuckles down, floats etc. ( see agressor, keiler, Power pips, ko, shockwave, hellcat,etc...

It create more difficulties for the opponent. Ordinary LP slightly loose momentum. I didn't hear of any new very good LP or my attention is not on that anymore? Maybe thats the new generation of modern defensive.

People who were playing me softly, floating the ball, waiting for the good ball to smash are surprise that I can attack as much as them and keep my deception and defensive game well in place.

We see a lot of modern defensive players twiddling to attack from the BH. Maybe the new Mp will make look for this options instead of twiddling. Future will tell us.


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 13:57 
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dunc wrote:
Now that the plastic ball has arrived and Harimoto is using this new style, he's effective. He wouldn't have been effective playing this way with the celluloid ball.


Seriously??? You know this for sure? How????? It's not a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc? You sure Harimoto just isn't a better player?

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2018, 04:56 
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JAPAN DOMESTIC SUPER LEAGUE TO BREED MORE CHAMPIONS .

http://tleague.jp/index2.html
Japanese super-kids Harimoto and Ito Mima are now going to grow even stronger, much stronger.
They don't need China Super League any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2018, 17:49 
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Not bad.. the more the merrier I suppose. Then again, the China Super League is a great place to improve, as well.. quite a few Japanese players in it as well. It's not like the Chinese are exclusionary, nor will the Japanese be. I imagine there would probably be a lot of Chinese players in the Japanese league, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2018, 19:54 
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iskandar taib wrote:
dunc wrote:
Now that the plastic ball has arrived and Harimoto is using this new style, he's effective. He wouldn't have been effective playing this way with the celluloid ball.


Seriously??? You know this for sure? How????? It's not a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc? You sure Harimoto just isn't a better player?

Iskandar

Obviously I can't prove this, but I've seen evidence of this style becoming more effective first-hand in local league.

He drives the ball regularly, especially on his backhand. Two of the top players in our local league play in this style. Since the rise of the plastic ball, their results have increased exponentially too. One is a junior, so obviously he would've progressed regardless, but the other is a veteran. Other juniors around his level haven't progressed as much - the other juniors are more orthodox loopers.

Could be a coincidence. I doubt it :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2018, 20:58 
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Sure, but the part I object to is the contention that he wouldn't do as well as with the old ball. I think he would have. Yeah he drives off the bounce but he's also applying a lot of spin - he isn't flat hitting. What makes him so dangerous is that he can drive and block to either corner with great control, especially on the backhand. There are obvious reasons why this style has an advantage over mid-range looping, if it weren't the Japanese wouldn't have pursued it. It does take someone exceptional to pull it off, and Harimoto is one such player. That, and playing better on that particular day, is why he beat Ma Long, not the new ball. Besides it's just one match - we will have to see what happens in the future.

By the way, has there been as much gnashing of teeth on the part of the Chinese compared to when Hirano Miu beat Ding Ning? Haven't seen anything about Ma Long having to write a self-criticization letter like Ding Ning had to..

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2018, 21:33 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Sure, but the part I object to is the contention that he wouldn't do as well as with the old ball. I think he would have. Yeah he drives off the bounce but he's also applying a lot of spin - he isn't flat hitting. What makes him so dangerous is that he can drive and block to either corner with great control, especially on the backhand.

With more incoming spin, is it harder to do that or not in your opinion?

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LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2018, 21:38 
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The old ball is 1) smaller, 2) faster, 3) spinnier, 4) lighter, and 5) made of a different material.

So with the new ball, the physics of the game have changed.

Playing the same game as before WILL NOT yield the same results.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2018, 01:35 
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dunc wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
Sure, but the part I object to is the contention that he wouldn't do as well as with the old ball. I think he would have. Yeah he drives off the bounce but he's also applying a lot of spin - he isn't flat hitting. What makes him so dangerous is that he can drive and block to either corner with great control, especially on the backhand.

With more incoming spin, is it harder to do that or not in your opinion?


Sure, it'd be "harder" to do, but 1) there isn't THAT much of a change, and 2) you're assuming Harimoto couldn't deal with this tiny amount of extra spin. He's young, he's just getting started, there's no way you can show that he couldn't have been as successful with the old ball.

By the way, have you heard anything about the Chinese complaining that Harimoto beat Ma Long because of the new ball? I certainly haven't, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese Domination
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2018, 17:16 
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iskandar taib wrote:
dunc wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
Sure, but the part I object to is the contention that he wouldn't do as well as with the old ball. I think he would have. Yeah he drives off the bounce but he's also applying a lot of spin - he isn't flat hitting. What makes him so dangerous is that he can drive and block to either corner with great control, especially on the backhand.

With more incoming spin, is it harder to do that or not in your opinion?


Sure, it'd be "harder" to do, but 1) there isn't THAT much of a change, and 2) you're assuming Harimoto couldn't deal with this tiny amount of extra spin. He's young, he's just getting started, there's no way you can show that he couldn't have been as successful with the old ball.

By the way, have you heard anything about the Chinese complaining that Harimoto beat Ma Long because of the new ball? I certainly haven't, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Iskandar

The national Chinese TT associated, whose primary sponsor is DHS, are not going to complain about a new ball which makes DHS a lot of money :)

There is enough of a change between the spin capabilities of the new ball/reaction from the rubber in comparison to the celluloid ball for it to play a significant part in affecting Harimoto's game. It's not just his control blocks, it's his ability to counter-loop/hit the ball at the top of the bounce against incoming topspin. That could easily account for 2, 3 or more points per end. At the top level, that's an absolute game changer.

Plus, if he couldn't do it, he wouldn't have continued to play that way.

It's all speculation, but I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think he'd be close to beating Chinese or Top 10 "other nation" players with the celluloid ball.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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