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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2018, 01:48 
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I switched to SP on my Bh a couple weeks ago, which opened up a new world of ej. I'm playing shakehand, still with T05 fh. My beloved yasaka sweden classics are rubbish with SP, so I need to choose a new blade as well.

I know there are some accomplished pips ejs here, so please help me out with your wisdom. I will be playing close to the table attack. Hitting, flicks, blocking, and pushes are priority. Chopping will be a desperation move if at all. Think mima ito without the skills or footwork.

I'd like to try SP in broad categories, so I'm not taking a lot of time and money testing sheets that play almost the same. So far I have only used TSP Spinpips red in 2.0. It's a fairly easy transition from t05, but I'm not sure that's an advantage, since I want to learn proper SP strokes. I have ordered a sheet of waran, also 2.0, which seems like a similar pip but at half the price. For a more traditional SP I also ordered two sheets of tuttle summer 3c (2.0).

My question is: have I covered the range of modern pips with these three? Are there other categories I should try, and if so, what's a good example in each category? Do I need to try different thicknesses? I always play max inverted, but maybe SP is different.

Then for the blade. At first I thought I needed something faster, but still flexy to loop. I don't want to wreck my fh since it's my only good shot. So I bought a used waldner senso classic jo shape. It's fine, but feels very random with the sp. Now I read that for SP the blade should be stiff, but can still be soft. So today I bought a used avalox p700. It will arrive next week. I also have an old custom am hinoki wrc 9mm one-ply (aka the log from the forest). That thing is crazy stiff even by one-ply standards, since I had it made with a tiny head size, something like 142 x 130. Maybe it would be good for sp.

I thought about a clipper classic, but the p700 is so close. Any other suggestions of blades suited for SP that fall into a different category?

I'm open to composites, but I don't want a crazy fast blade because I won't be able to keep my fh on the table.

Suggestions?


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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2018, 03:25 
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Blade: Defplay/Stiga All Carbon
FH: Gambler MechTek/T05
BH: Super FX Large Pore/T05
Classic Clipper is the standard of course. Shao Yu uses a Oversized Stiga Clipper (Discontinued) with Stiga Clippa.

Talk to Speedy on MYTT. He uses a BTY Michael Maze and i think he's used some of the harder Stiga's, I think the Rosewood or something like that in the past. Another SP player at NOVATTC likes the ZJK ZLC and the Clipper CR. Speedy is about 2200 as high as 2300.

I really liked the Xiom Offensive S (all wood). It's a heavier thicker 5 ply. THe Viscaria was just as good. I only flirted with SPs for only 2 months, so I'm by no means an expert.

PS, I have a Xiom Offensive S and Stiga Clippa for sale. :)

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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2018, 03:37 
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Blade: Defplay/Stiga All Carbon
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The Clippa is considered a good middle of the road pip, and I liked it.

Speedy was trying to get me to try Impartial XS but it was too expensive for my blood. Supposed to be easier transition from inverted. His usual recommendation to most is Moristo SP, which most of the SP players in my club play. They all love it.

Give him an IM, he's a good guy. Tell him Ian from NOVATTC mentioned you should contact him.

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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2018, 03:52 
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Blade: Yasaka Extra Offensive
FH: Rakza Xs
BH: Mark V
BRS wrote:
My question is: have I covered the range of modern pips with these three? Are there other categories I should try, and if so, what's a good example in each category?


I think you may have covered Rakza PO with the three you mentioned, but it does have enough difference to be considered. it is very good at aggressive looping style attacks from the backhand - which sounds like what you are looking for. The other I might mention is Elfrark also by Yasaka, since it is cone shaped pip, and I don't believe any you mentioned are. The point is it get the disruption of a long pip without the loss of control associate with most. Just ideas from an EJ.

BRS wrote:
Then for the blade. At first I thought I needed something faster, but still flexy to loop. I don't want to wreck my fh since it's my only good shot.

Any other suggestions of blades suited for SP that fall into a different category?

I'm open to composites, but I don't want a crazy fast blade because I won't be able to keep my fh on the table.

Suggestions?


How about a balsa carbon composite like Battle Balsa. Stiff but light weight so you retain the feel. Certainly faster than the Sweden Classic. Easy to loop with on the forehand too.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 03:44 
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Blade: TSP BB 4.0
FH: Aurus Select 1.9
BH: Keiler 1.2
Please let us know how you get on with the various SP. Depending how you want to play you may be better off trying thinner sponge than you normally do for inverted e.g 1.5mm or 1.8mm . Waran in 2mm on the BH may prove a bit fast and hard to control being a tensor sponge pip. I have 1.5mm on a def blade to gain control whilst still benefitting from its spin and hitting speed.

You will find the throw on Waran lower than TSP Spinpips with a flatter trajectory Spinpips being quite unique in the high level of topspin it can generate with an angled bat due to the conical pips. It has now been updated to the faster red and blue versions probably aimed mainly at FH use.

If you find Short pips are not dangerous enough unless hit flat out then you could always venture into the world of medium pips such as Keiler and Aggressor which having switched from inverted to SP on the BH is the route I am now taking. Both SP and MP are great for playing against LP as lifting backspin is easy and they don't give the LP user a lot of spin. Also they make blocking and counter hitting top spin really easy, with MPs giving skidding returns that often get dumped in the net.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 06:25 
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to hold off on any MP for a while. I already went full retard on SP to test. I ordered Moristo SP (Mima Ito :inlove: :inlove: :inlove: ), spectol red (traditional pip, wanted blue but red was on sale so #fate), and two sheets of tuttle summer 3c (so cheap!)

I only really have one blade to test them on so that will take a while, unless I buy a second p700, or, god forbid, something else new, just to see if it might be better.


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2018, 01:06 
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Blade: TSP BB 4.0
FH: Aurus Select 1.9
BH: Keiler 1.2
You may well find that your off +P700 blade is just a bit to fast and springy for short pips on the BH especially fast ones like Waran and TSP red, which may make meaningful evaluation of the different ones you have bought difficult.


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 03:08 
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Japsican wrote:
Classic Clipper is the standard of course. Shao Yu uses a Oversized Stiga Clipper (Discontinued) with Stiga Clippa.

Talk to Speedy on MYTT. He uses a BTY Michael Maze and i think he's used some of the harder Stiga's, I think the Rosewood or something like that in the past. Another SP player at NOVATTC likes the ZJK ZLC and the Clipper CR. Speedy is about 2200 as high as 2300.

I really liked the Xiom Offensive S (all wood). It's a heavier thicker 5 ply. THe Viscaria was just as good. I only flirted with SPs for only 2 months, so I'm by no means an expert.

PS, I have a Xiom Offensive S and Stiga Clippa for sale. :)



I wonder if you have info about what are using the 2200+ short pips penholders like li yuxiang ju mingwei(blades)


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 05:16 
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I don't have any info on what those penholders are playing.

FWIW, the P700 is def not OFF+. It may say that in Avalox's PR stuff, but it's slower than a viscaria. It's slower than the TB zlf I played with for about two years. But faster than the wsc. So maybe high off- low off. What matters is I can hit fh angles with it, so I decided to keep it for now (meaning buy another one in ST).

For the SP last night I did about 2.5 hours of drills with moristo sp 2.0 and found it really enjoyable. Slower than the spinpips red, but adequately fast, and easier to use for flicks and short pushes. It required a more active block, I guess just from being slower. They make a max sponge (2.0 is labeled "super-thick" but max is thicker). But I think max is probably beyond my skill level for now.

What I find with the pips over only six weeks of use is that if I am in position with weight forward and early timing it is very very easy to make a quality shot. If any if those are lacking results become increasingly random. I'm not sure I will be able to get my balance and movement up to where I can make full use of the sp, but I have nothing to lose in the attempt.


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 18:05 
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BRS wrote:
I don't have any info on what those penholders are playing.

FWIW, the P700 is def not OFF+. It may say that in Avalox's PR stuff, but it's slower than a viscaria. It's slower than the TB zlf I played with for about two years. But faster than the wsc. So maybe high off- low off. What matters is I can hit fh angles with it, so I decided to keep it for now (meaning buy another one in ST).

For the SP last night I did about 2.5 hours of drills with moristo sp 2.0 and found it really enjoyable. Slower than the spinpips red, but adequately fast, and easier to use for flicks and short pushes. It required a more active block, I guess just from being slower. They make a max sponge (2.0 is labeled "super-thick" but max is thicker). But I think max is probably beyond my skill level for now.

What I find with the pips over only six weeks of use is that if I am in position with weight forward and early timing it is very very easy to make a quality shot. If any if those are lacking results become increasingly random. I'm not sure I will be able to get my balance and movement up to where I can make full use of the sp, but I have nothing to lose in the attempt.


Can you post your experience with spinpips red?


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 23:10 
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bbkon wrote:
Can you post your experience with spinpips red?


I can, but keep in mind it was the first SP I tried, and I only have two others to compare.

I have SP on my backhand since mid-May. The SpinPips red 2.0 was very easy to transition to from T05. My level went down less than 100 usatt points, and after three weeks I was basically playing my level again with the SP. It can create good spin on pushes, and is very easy to block with. I was initially using it on a flexy looping blade (WSC) and hits were too random on placement. It's also quite fast and I hit a lot off the end. When I changed it to a stiffer 7-ply P700 it felt much more controllable on placement. I never served with it in matches since I have T05 still on fh. Just fooling around I could not make much service spin with it, but my technique and contact are probably all wrong for SP serving. Spinning low balls with it was very easy, and it is possible to make a nice low trajectory.

The spinpips red is quite sensitive to incoming spin. It really plays close to inverted in that respect. That did not bother me at all coming from T05, the spinpips is much less sensitive than that. But if you are used to or looking for a SP where you do not have to pay attention to incoming spin, stay away from SpinPips red. It is not that.

I have tested two other SP, so that is all I could compare with. Spectol red, I absolutely hated this rubber. It was super fast, much faster than Spinpips, even in 1.8. And it seemed to take spin but could not make any spin. Worst of both. Probably it is user error, since I have no proper SP technique yet. But I can say Spectol red is not for pips novices, and is not an easy transition from tenergy.

Moristo sp 2.0. I liked the Spinpips red, but I love Moristo. I have trained five hours doing drils with it. It is slower, but flat hits have a little crazy wiggle or knuckle after the bounce. And with decent force and technique it is plenty fast enough. Backhand 'topspins' seem very controllable, more than with Spinpips red. I was able to place them off the wide bh line when receiving serves long to my bh (in drills, no match play yet), which is the holy grail of receiving for me. Moristo makes a lot of spin on pushes, and is easier to flick with, probably just because it doesn't catapult so much. It is noticeably worse than Spinpips red in blocking, which depending on your playstyle could be the most important shot. I want to attack with the bh, so for me it is better. Blocking required an active stroke with moristo, so you really need to get your body behind the ball. Spinpips is a lot more forgiving if you reach a little for a block.

In general spinpips red and moristo are very similar. I prefer moristo, but i was quite happy with spinpips red. Spinpips in 1.8 might play like moristo 2.0.


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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2018, 15:48 
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BRS wrote:
bbkon wrote:
Can you post your experience with spinpips red?


I can, but keep in mind it was the first SP I tried, and I only have two others to compare.

I have SP on my backhand since mid-May. The SpinPips red 2.0 was very easy to transition to from T05. My level went down less than 100 usatt points, and after three weeks I was basically playing my level again with the SP. It can create good spin on pushes, and is very easy to block with. I was initially using it on a flexy looping blade (WSC) and hits were too random on placement. It's also quite fast and I hit a lot off the end. When I changed it to a stiffer 7-ply P700 it felt much more controllable on placement. I never served with it in matches since I have T05 still on fh. Just fooling around I could not make much service spin with it, but my technique and contact are probably all wrong for SP serving. Spinning low balls with it was very easy, and it is possible to make a nice low trajectory.

The spinpips red is quite sensitive to incoming spin. It really plays close to inverted in that respect. That did not bother me at all coming from T05, the spinpips is much less sensitive than that. But if you are used to or looking for a SP where you do not have to pay attention to incoming spin, stay away from SpinPips red. It is not that.

I have tested two other SP, so that is all I could compare with. Spectol red, I absolutely hated this rubber. It was super fast, much faster than Spinpips, even in 1.8. And it seemed to take spin but could not make any spin. Worst of both. Probably it is user error, since I have no proper SP technique yet. But I can say Spectol red is not for pips novices, and is not an easy transition from tenergy.

Moristo sp 2.0. I liked the Spinpips red, but I love Moristo. I have trained five hours doing drils with it. It is slower, but flat hits have a little crazy wiggle or knuckle after the bounce. And with decent force and technique it is plenty fast enough. Backhand 'topspins' seem very controllable, more than with Spinpips red. I was able to place them off the wide bh line when receiving serves long to my bh (in drills, no match play yet), which is the holy grail of receiving for me. Moristo makes a lot of spin on pushes, and is easier to flick with, probably just because it doesn't catapult so much. It is noticeably worse than Spinpips red in blocking, which depending on your playstyle could be the most important shot. I want to attack with the bh, so for me it is better. Blocking required an active stroke with moristo, so you really need to get your body behind the ball. Spinpips is a lot more forgiving if you reach a little for a block.

In general spinpips red and moristo are very similar. I prefer moristo, but i was quite happy with spinpips red. Spinpips in 1.8 might play like moristo 2.0.



Why moristo is worse for blocking? And what pip gives more difficult blocks to loop?


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PostPosted: 24 Jul 2018, 04:22 
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Moristo isn't actually worse than spinpips for blocking, I was still using my tenergy blocking technique with the SP, and SpinPips is closer to T05 than Moristo is. I'm at B75 now training quite a lot, and the Moristo is fine for blocking. I just have to get my body behind the ball. When I don't move right, it isn't the SPs fault if the block is rubbish.


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