OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 22 Oct 2018, 23:37


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2018, 23:57 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 19 Jan 2016, 09:19
Posts: 68
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times
What characteristics of a blade and rubber (both together and seperately) determines the amount of spin it can produce?


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: 08 Aug 2018, 04:20 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 22 Feb 2017, 04:18
Posts: 281
Location: Wakefield UK
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Blade: TSP BB 4.0
FH: Aurus Select 1.9
BH: Keiler 1.2
Re blades a bit of flexibility and softer outer Plies such as Limbs gives more dwell= more spin.

For rubbers as well as factors like tackiness or grip of the top sheet, it can depend on the player. A high level player with fast action will in theory get more spin from a hard rubber but a lower level player like me will get more spin from a softer rubber as it is easier to engage the sponge.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 10:46 
Online
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 7055
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 869 times
Much as everyone loves to theorize about this, I doubt anyone outside Butterfly actually knows for sure.. :lol: There are fast blades and slow blades (that can be measured fairly easily), the rest of it would require high speed cameras, expensive instruments, etc. Some blades FEEL "flexible" but try actually bending them. You won't get anywhere (and the forces on a blade when it hits the ball - even very hard - aren't all that much, really). The rubber deforms a heck of a lot more.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 11:39 
Offline
Bytes worse than his Bark
Bytes worse than his Bark
User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 12:25
Posts: 1221
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 287 times
Blade: OldNittaku Carbon
FH: Evolution FX-P max
BH: Tenergy 05 max
The most important contributor is ... <drum roll> ... the player.

Most reasonable players can get a more or less similar amount of spin out of a $550 blade with > $100 rubbers on each side as with a < $20 blade with $20 - $30 rubbers on each side.

Of course, it may be easier or harder with one or the other to do so.

iskandar can probably tell you the cheaper blade and rubber combination. (Sanwai M8 with Batwings or something?)

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 13:11 
Online
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 7055
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 869 times
I can easily tell if one combo is faster than another, but I can't really tell whether it produces more spin than the other combo. Not unless it's really old rubber or pips out or something of the sort. Agreed - the player's technique and ability will determine the amount of spin.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 13:19 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jul 2017, 11:04
Posts: 356
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 94 times
Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Armstrong SH-I 1.8
BH: TSP Curl P3 Alpha R OX
iskandar taib wrote:
Some blades FEEL "flexible" but try actually bending them. You won't get anywhere (and the forces on a blade when it hits the ball - even very hard - aren't all that much, really). The rubber deforms a heck of a lot more.

Iskandar


Yeah I don’t understand the physics of it. How can a ball make a blade flex? Yet I can certainly feel the stiffness of a blade during play and like some flex for spinny looping and stiffer for blocking. Still experimenting to determine the right balance to suit my game.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 14:09 
Online
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 7055
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 869 times
Carbon blades do feel "stiff", and you do feel something interesting when you hit a loop correctly that one might interpret as "flex", but I'm pretty sure it's all in the vibrations rather than actual blade flexing. If anything is flexing it's actually the rubber rather than the blade. With a proper loop the impact is at a pretty high angle to the blade, so the resultant force normal to the blade surface would be pretty low, but the rubber will deform, and it won't just deform normal to the blade, it also gets "dragged sideways" as it grips the ball.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 15:46 
Offline
The aPPrentice
The aPPrentice
User avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 13:23
Posts: 1711
Location: Portland OR
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Speaking on rubbers, I feel that spin is determined by how much the rubber resists deformation, how much the rubber can deform, and how fast the rubber returns to its original state after being deformed.
There are other things like topsheet thickness, pimple geometry and orientation, tackiness, tension etc. but the complete relation between sponge and topsheet is beyond me.
Its hard to speak in definites about the way equipment works because much of it is down to chemistry and geometry. It'd definitely be interesting to try discovering what exactly makes equipment work the way it does, but I can't imagine that it would be cheap :lol:

_________________
Allround Evolution ST + Any rubber really


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 17:53 
Online
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 7055
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 869 times
And how much "slippage" there is between ball and rubber. Really shouldn't be much with modern rubbers, if any - and the actual spin produced can be more than would be predicted by racket speed alone since the rubber bounces back.



At 3:02.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2018, 12:33 
Offline
Cho Tokusen

Joined: 08 Jul 2007, 12:01
Posts: 971
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 3 times
So what is the general rule to choose a good blade for looping ?

_________________
Roots 9 C-Pen
Red Acuda P2


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Korish and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: