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 Post subject: Zeropong Toxic Blades
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 19:22 
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Blade: 709 Carbon
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Are these good blades? Has anyone played with them? They won't tell you what they're made of, the Zeropong won't.
Also, random here what is the heaviest blade on the market?
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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:00 
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I've only used the Toxic 5, which is supposedly faster than the Toxic 3.

I felt the Toxic 5 was almost identical in speed to the Stiga Allround Classic. That is, AR rather than DEF speed. The head size is a defence-friendly ~158mm wide x ~163mm tall.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 01:56 
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The Toxic blades are actually from China, sold under the LKT (or was it KTL - I can't remember which is the current one) brand. Has some connection to 729. I've heard it said (can't remember who said it, or where I read it, and I've no idea how true it is) that these blades are the equivalent of the old Hock 3 and 5 ply blades from the 1940s/1950s. Bernard Hock hand-made these at his workshop in South Bend, IN. Back then we didn't use sponge and these blades are quite oversized by today's standards since hard rubber is a lot lighter than sandwich. Since sponge wasn't in use back then, a lot of people played defence, or allround styles (which meant you'd be driving and chopping in equal measure - one player would chop, the other would drive). The 3 ply Hock was slower than the 5 ply, and was more suited for chop defence, while the 5 ply was faster and used for styles which used more offence. I bought a KTL Toxic 3 some months back and a couple sheets of hard rubber to go with it but have not done anything with it yet.

That's one possible version of the story. The other one? Blades with names like "Toxic", "Kung Fu", "Zombie", "VooDoo" etc. are most likely the result of a more recent phenomenon, that of "frictionless rubber". This usually involved long pips treated, for instance, by smearing epoxy glue on the tips of the pips. The idea was to "reflect" as much spin back at the opponent by blocking the ball close to the table. The returning ball often behaved in strange ways - it would float or swerve - and was said to be "toxic", because it was hard to deal with. For this to work you needed a slow blade - one that could handle the blocking of even a very fast loop kill. This style has almost disappeared, since ITTF banned these rubbers a few years ago (you can still get frictionless antis though). Perhaps this is what the Toxic blades were meant for - they do seem to fit the bill. Oversized, slow, probably lots of control against fast balls.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 04:48 
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Blade: 709 Carbon
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Thanks for the detailed insight Iskandar! How do you think long pips would work with say, the Toxic 5 blade? Then put a tacky rubber on other side and use as a combo bat.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 04:57 
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Johnwaynejr wrote:
Thanks for the detailed insight Iskandar! How do you think long pips would work with say, the Toxic 5 blade? Then put a tacky rubber on other side and use as a combo bat.


That's exactly how it is positioned on colestt.com site - a combo LP/Inv setup. I had Cole make it into a 'hardbat' combo (Dr. Evil on both sides) with thoughts of playing in some hardbat events, but that has not really happened yet.

I suspect it will be fine with LP, will slow down the game for sure :) .

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Last edited by pgpg on 06 Nov 2018, 11:33, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 10:45 
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That's how I think most people would use it these days - long pips on one side and inverted on the other. Mind you, I have no direct experience with them. And from what I've been reading, modern defensive blades are actually quite fast, because modern defense involves quite a bit of looping.

These blades are a lot harder to get these days compared to 3-4 years ago. Zeropong sells them, of course, but they seem to have disappeared from the usual Chinese sources (mainly AliExpress and Ebay). Twice in the last few months Eacheng has offered Toxic 3s for sale on ebay, but that's about it. When I first started playing again they were among the many LKT blades available on AliExpress. They don't cost a fortune, if you're curious about them just get one and see...

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 14:53 
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Blade: 709 Carbon
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iskandar taib wrote:
That's how I think most people would use it these days - long pips on one side and inverted on the other. Mind you, I have no direct experience with them. And from what I've been reading, modern defensive blades are actually quite fast, because modern defense involves quite a bit of looping.

These blades are a lot harder to get these days compared to 3-4 years ago. Zeropong sells them, of course, but they seem to have disappeared from the usual Chinese sources (mainly AliExpress and Ebay). Twice in the last few months Eacheng has offered Toxic 3s for sale on ebay, but that's about it. When I first started playing again they were among the many LKT blades available on AliExpress. They don't cost a fortune, if you're curious about them just get one and see...

Iskandar

I believe I will : ) Can't hurt to try it. Always fun to try out a new setup. I noticed they won't say what the material is in the wood (type, etc. on Zeropong). Part of a secret or something haha.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 15:10 
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Johnwaynejr wrote:
I noticed they won't say what the material is in the wood (type, etc. on Zeropong). Part of a secret or something haha.

Most manufacturers don't disclose this, because (1) most players don't have a clue what the different types of wood do, and (2) it makes it so much easier for another manufacturer to copy the product and claim the design as their own.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 17:01 
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3) It allows them to switch to other woods without having to tell anyone.. :lol:

And it probably doesn't matter as much as a lot of people think it does..

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 18:00 
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Blade: 709 Carbon
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You guys know your table tennis. I had no clue about that. This is the first message forum that I have tried. Not really good with the internet. Appreciate wveyone’s Patience.


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2018, 19:47 
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iskandar taib wrote:
3) It allows them to switch to other woods without having to tell anyone.. :lol:

And it probably doesn't matter as much as a lot of people think it does..

:lol: :lol: :lol: you cynic! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2018, 01:07 
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haggisv wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
3) It allows them to switch to other woods without having to tell anyone.. :lol:

And it probably doesn't matter as much as a lot of people think it does..

:lol: :lol: :lol: you cynic! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Here is my new setup:
Toxic 3
Crossfire 1.5 mm
RITC 755 1.0 mm

Any advice on how this should play? I am a Seemiller style, only use one side of blade. I watned the FXC control but they were out of it.


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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2018, 03:11 
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I'd go thicker on the inverted side. 2.0mm at least, or Max sponge. As listed, it's going to be terribly slow.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2018, 05:18 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I'd go thicker on the inverted side. 2.0mm at least, or Max sponge. As listed, it's going to be terribly slow.

Iskandar


I'd say you are correct, probably will be. I've been playing with a fast carbon blade, and I'm trying to get better control. I'm rated 900. Been that way since, oh about, 1992 :rofl: :rofl:
Can I get some good spin with my wrist? I use my thumb out from the side of the back of the paddle, and use my index finger to grip the right side of the back of my paddle. I call it "The Searcher" grip, after the John Wayne movie.


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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2018, 15:54 
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The "thumb on the back" grip sounds like what I used to call the "American Basement Grip" because I saw a lot of frat guys at college using it. The bat would be held almost at right angles to the arm and the thumb would be bent at almost right angles to the wrist. As you can imagine there's almost no forehand, they'd try to rotate the bat by twisting the forearm, and sometimes they'd lean their bodies to the left to get to a forehand ball. The only shot that would be comfortably possible would be a backhand block against mild topspin or backspin.

Anyhow... a thicker sponge would give more spin than a thin one. I suppose it depends on how hard your opponents hit - if they give you soft balls you'd have a harder time hitting the ball back hard if you have a very slow racket.

Iskandar


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