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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 13:00 
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Other than Joo, (who doesn’t really use them much any more) do you all know of any pros or elite amateurs that use Dtecs with SPONGE?

Or elite amateurs.

I’m looking for video.

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 13:09 
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I think Park Mi Young was said to use d.tecs as well at times. Come to think of it, can't really name anyone current using them for a chopping game. And didn't Joo stop using those back around 2010 or 2011?

I've been chopping with .9 d.tecs -- for what that is worth... :lol:

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 13:38 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I think Park Mi Young was said to use d.tecs as well at times. Come to think of it, can't really name anyone current using them for a chopping game. And didn't Joo stop using those back around 2010 or 2011?

I've been chopping with .9 d.tecs -- for what that is worth... :lol:

Yeah, Joo hasn’t used it to my knowledge as I said.

I too have the 0,9mm, and I love how they feel. But I’m not sure about them with the new ball. I usually play with grippy rubbers, P-1 and FL2/FL3 lately, but they sheer feeling of Dtecs are excellent. I guess I’m just wanting to see that they are viable. What’s your level and how’s it worked for you?

For me, slippery pips tend to make me win against better competition, and lose against worse players. With grippy pips I tend to be more consistent in terms of who I beat and lose to...

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 13:41 
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You can leverage better FH to dispose of worse players (well, most of them). And as you play higher events, there will be fewer of 'worse' players in there: diversity of play styles shrinks as you go up, I think.

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 13:51 
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I don't know of any other Pro players that use it, Curl p1-r seems to be the most common. I've used it for chopping in both OX abd 0.5mm, and it chop very well even in OX. Only for the real hard loops OX is hard to control, where a sponge can really help.

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 13:59 
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pgpg wrote:
You can leverage better FH to dispose of worse players (well, most of them). And as you play higher events, there will be fewer of 'worse' players in there: diversity of play styles shrinks as you go up, I think.

Ah, and there’s the rub. I’ve been working on trying to leverage my forehand ever since I left jpen. I’m more of a classic defender as you know, opting to chop on the FH.

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 14:02 
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haggisv wrote:
I don't know of any other Pro players that use it, Curl p1-r seems to be the most common. I've used it for chopping in both OX abd 0.5mm, and it chop very well even in OX. Only for the real hard loops OX is hard to control, where a sponge can really help.

While I love it, I get the sense I’m a bit at the mercy of the enemy spinwise. So, when I use it, I tend twiddle a lot to chop with inverted. Not quite like OX, but leaning that way. (I’m speaking to the 0.9 mm )

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 14:40 
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Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
You can leverage better FH to dispose of worse players (well, most of them). And as you play higher events, there will be fewer of 'worse' players in there: diversity of play styles shrinks as you go up, I think.

Ah, and there’s the rub. I’ve been working on trying to leverage my forehand ever since I left jpen. I’m more of a classic defender as you know, opting to chop on the FH.


I do what pgpg said. At first I was reluctant to attack because I was a "defender"! But the games were kind of boring and pointless. Against the lower level people, if I chop they will push it back around 80%+ of the time. So I just push a few times until I get one to the sweet spot and BAM! Loop it home. Against players who can and do loop, the pips work nicely for chopping. But the d.tecs is not a great help when facing 'limited skill' players, you might say.

Unless you have the mindset to be a push/chop robot... if that is the case, I think a grippier pip is better also. I've never seen a classic defender with slick or frictionless pips. Your weapon is the changing of back spin/no spin, and with a dead rubber you lose that option -- aside from twiddling.

Ojio Haruna is a young female chopper who is about as classic as one can get... she seems to literally only attack once the expedite rule has been put into play. So if you're an aspiring classic defender, what benefit do you get from the slick pips other than more immunity to spin?

I personally use the d.tecs as a safe return chopping/push rubber, just until I can force an error or do an attack of my own. Although I'm leaning toward going back to p4, fl3, or something with more grip for chopping.

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 14:59 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
You can leverage better FH to dispose of worse players (well, most of them). And as you play higher events, there will be fewer of 'worse' players in there: diversity of play styles shrinks as you go up, I think.

Ah, and there’s the rub. I’ve been working on trying to leverage my forehand ever since I left jpen. I’m more of a classic defender as you know, opting to chop on the FH.


I do what pgpg said. At first I was reluctant to attack because I was a "defender"! But the games were kind of boring and pointless. Against the lower level people, if I chop they will push it back around 80%+ of the time. So I just push a few times until I get one to the sweet spot and BAM! Loop it home. Against players who can and do loop, the pips work nicely for chopping. But the d.tecs is not a great help when facing 'limited skill' players, you might say.

Unless you have the mindset to be a push/chop robot... if that is the case, I think a grippier pip is better also. I've never seen a classic defender with slick or frictionless pips. Your weapon is the changing of back spin/no spin, and with a dead rubber you lose that option -- aside from twiddling.

Ojio Haruna is a young female chopper who is about as classic as one can get... she seems to literally only attack once the expedite rule has been put into play. So if you're an aspiring classic defender, what benefit do you get from the slick pips other than more immunity to spin?

I personally use the d.tecs as a safe return chopping/push rubber, just until I can force an error or do an attack of my own. Although I'm leaning toward going back to p4, fl3, or something with more grip for chopping.


Trust me, I get it. I am the ultimate chtchetinine fan! Lol.

I’m considering sponged Dtecs hoping that it provides a nice combo of safety and variety. Obviously the manipulation will be less than p-1r (my normal rubber) but I had pretty good success with DG as well. Depends on the opponent. I bump a lot too, so slick pips aren’t useless for me. But I would want a little grip. I’m always working on making my game more modern... perpetual FH work. it’s not like I can’t loop at all, but it’s definitley not my strong suite.

I do like the speed and trajectory of the chops with Dtecs, but it sounds like you are saying there is not much variety even in the 0.9mm. That’s why I was looking for video.

FWIW, there is an OX chopper who is a classic chopper at my club, around 2100. So slippery pips and classic d is possible, you just have to be very consistent. And in shape! He uses 755ox and and reflectoid 1.5mm.

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 01:44 
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Quote:

I do what pgpg said. At first I was reluctant to attack because I was a "defender"! But the games were kind of boring and pointless. Against the lower level people, if I chop they will push it back around 80%+ of the time. So I just push a few times until I get one to the sweet spot and BAM! Loop it home. Against players who can and do loop, the pips work nicely for chopping. But the d.tecs is not a great help when facing 'limited skill' players, you might say.

Unless you have the mindset to be a push/chop robot... if that is the case, I think a grippier pip is better also. I've never seen a classic defender with slick or frictionless pips. Your weapon is the changing of back spin/no spin, and with a dead rubber you lose that option -- aside from twiddling.

Ojio Haruna is a young female chopper who is about as classic as one can get... she seems to literally only attack once the expedite rule has been put into play. So if you're an aspiring classic defender, what benefit do you get from the slick pips other than more immunity to spin?

I personally use the d.tecs as a safe return chopping/push rubber, just until I can force an error or do an attack of my own. Although I'm leaning toward going back to p4, fl3, or something with more grip for chopping.


Trust me, I get it. I am the ultimate chtchetinine fan! Lol.

I’m considering sponged Dtecs hoping that it provides a nice combo of safety and variety. Obviously the manipulation will be less than p-1r (my normal rubber) but I had pretty good success with DG as well. Depends on the opponent. I bump a lot too, so slick pips aren’t useless for me. But I would want a little grip. I’m always working on making my game more modern... perpetual FH work. it’s not like I can’t loop at all, but it’s definitley not my strong suite.

I do like the speed and trajectory of the chops with Dtecs, but it sounds like you are saying there is not much variety even in the 0.9mm. That’s why I was looking for video.

FWIW, there is an OX chopper who is a classic chopper at my club, around 2100. So slippery pips and classic d is possible, you just have to be very consistent. And in shape! He uses 755ox and and reflectoid 1.5mm.[/quote]

Though I think the 755 is still decently grippy. Wasn't that the guy you emailed and he said he thought he could add enough with them? But actually come to think of it, thomas Ben born used the curl p1r in ox as a classic defender. So it's certainly possible with a lower spin pip. He is a high level guy though, and has a lot of spin coming at him. Not sure how he would play a 1600 to 1900 level guy.

There is some variety with the sponged d tecs, but it still relies on the other person. You can take some spin off or make it heavier depending on the stroke. If they send you a no spin, you cannot make it very heavy in the return.

Have you tries the feint long 2?

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 03:27 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Though I think the 755 is still decently grippy. Wasn't that the guy you emailed and he said he thought he could add enough with them? But actually come to think of it, thomas Ben born used the curl p1r in ox as a classic defender. So it's certainly possible with a lower spin pip. He is a high level guy though, and has a lot of spin coming at him. Not sure how he would play a 1600 to 1900 level guy.

There is some variety with the sponged d tecs, but it still relies on the other person. You can take some spin off or make it heavier depending on the stroke. If they send you a no spin, you cannot make it very heavy in the return.

Have you tries the feint long 2?

Wow, you have a real good memory. Yes, that's him. GMan and Der Echte know him, his name is Daniel...very tricky. Although he plays more classical, he does have a decent FH, just doesn't use it as much as a modern defender. He probably could play that way if he chose to.

RE: FL2
Funny you bring that up. I just bought it. So the 2 setups I'm going to test out is Ganna Gapanova's exact setup, FL2 1.3/TackChop 1.5mm on a JSH. And then Dtecs 0.9/Xiom Vega DEF on a VKM.

It's like you have been spying on me SS. :^)

So why did you ask about the FL2? I have practiced with it, but no game situations yet. Might rectify that today.

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 04:41 
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Japsican,
I remember either you or someone else tell me that Eric - 2100-2200 chopper from VA - plays with a Dtecs. Maybe I am confusing something but 2200 is good enough of a level to prove that it would work well with the new poly ball.


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 04:55 
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Japsican wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
Though I think the 755 is still decently grippy. Wasn't that the guy you emailed and he said he thought he could add enough with them? But actually come to think of it, thomas Ben born used the curl p1r in ox as a classic defender. So it's certainly possible with a lower spin pip. He is a high level guy though, and has a lot of spin coming at him. Not sure how he would play a 1600 to 1900 level guy.

There is some variety with the sponged d tecs, but it still relies on the other person. You can take some spin off or make it heavier depending on the stroke. If they send you a no spin, you cannot make it very heavy in the return.

Have you tries the feint long 2?

Wow, you have a real good memory. Yes, that's him. GMan and Der Echte know him, his name is Daniel...very tricky. Although he plays more classical, he does have a decent FH, just doesn't use it as much as a modern defender. He probably could play that way if he chose to.

RE: FL2
Funny you bring that up. I just bought it. So the 2 setups I'm going to test out is Ganna Gapanova's exact setup, FL2 1.3/TackChop 1.5mm on a JSH. And then Dtecs 0.9/Xiom Vega DEF on a VKM.

It's like you have been spying on me SS. :^)

So why did you ask about the FL2? I have practiced with it, but no game situations yet. Might rectify that today.



Don't look behind you... :lol:

I guess we've been on similar missions, playing style wise so I've read most all of threads I could find.

For the pips, I've got a huge stack of them... and for the game you're aiming for, I think the FL2 is a good middle ground. A bit of grip, not a ton, allowing for some spin variation but also decent blocking and hitting when called for. I think hiraya koudai the japanese chopper also uses fl2, and his game style was one I tried to model mine on. That being chop/push everything back aside from weaker pushes from the opponent -- then you loop those for winners. Though now I've transitioned more toward a Weixing style game of attacking on the forehand much more often, since it's easier and quicker to beat most lower level people doing it that way. So the safer backhand pips don't bother me as much. It's only when I want to 'win by defense' that I start swapping pips around again. I think the d.tecs .9 work fine for an aggressive FH style. If I were wanting to be classical, I'd not use them however. You get safer returns (spin wise), for both you and the opponent. I can stay in the point longer until the FH is primed, but I seem to earn a lot less points by defense unless facing a loop happy guy who just refuses to push the chops :P Those are my favorite kind of games. However, as I'm sure you've experienced, most people will stop looping when it results in losses!

FL2 has the do it all feel with no specialization

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 05:02 
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Oh and duuuuh... I almost forgot! The new pip I'm testing is actually the joola cwx .9. It is similar to fl2, in that there is less grip than a p4 rubber but more than the d.tecs. another in betweener

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 06:27 
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notfound123 wrote:
Japsican,
I remember either you or someone else tell me that Eric - 2100-2200 chopper from VA - plays with a Dtecs. Maybe I am confusing something but 2200 is good enough of a level to prove that it would work well with the new poly ball.

You are correct! However he Attacks far more often than I do. And he’s 1900 again. Not sure what happened

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