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 Post subject: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 03:40 
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Hello,

I've been playing with Long Pips for around 7-8 months... I haven't yet completely understood how to play with /use my Long Pips... I play a mix style ie. Push/Passive Block at the table, and/or chop away (3-6ft) from the table...

Anyway, I have recently found player, who's willing to give me practice... He's not a coach, but is a 1st division, state-level player... He plays double-inverted, and is considered by many, as an expert in playing against Pips... So far, we've had 2-3 practice sessions, but mostly working on my inverted side game..

I would like to know Long Pip based drills, that I can incorporate into our practice sessions... I have already seen and tried Coach McAffee's drills, that're floating around...But, for some reason they don't work for me.. Any suggestions, apart from those ?

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Setup 1 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 2 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 3 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Reactor Corbor (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 04:12 
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The way I'd think about this is (1) what do you want to do with your long pips (i) against topspin, (ii) against underspin, and (iii) against no-spin; and (2) what is your main offense going to be (long pips rolls or long pips aggressive pushes, forehand loops or flat kills, etc.)? Start with the shots among these that are going to be the bread-and-butter of your game. If, for example, you're a very defensive player who doesn't really attack and feeds off of opponents' errors, then offense is not going to be the main focus of your training at the outset.

So at first, I'd just train the same shot over and over again. If your basic long pips block is shaky, there's no point adding in the footwork and body movement required to transition from that to a forehand loop off of your opponent's push in response to your block. Instead, I'd just take that basic shot (the block, for example) and drill it again and again until you feel good with it. First the ball (preferably through multiball) should be targeted to the same place on the table until you stop making mistakes there, then after you feel comfortable with that, you can transition to blocking all over the table (or all over the backhand side if that's your game). Entirely separately from that, drill, let's say, a long pips push (or whatever you're going to do with your pips against underspin). And go through the same process there. Only once you feel confident with both of these shots in isolation should you, in my view, move to putting them together into a block, push sequence (or a block-block-block-push sequence or whatever). (And then you can also try to incorporate whatever you're going to do with your pips against no-spin, such as a sideswipe or a light topspin roll.) The same is true of attacking. I'd train your pips attacks, forehand loop or forehand smash or whatever SEPARATELY, and only after you feel comfortable with those shots individually, then start putting them together into a plausible sequence for purposes of drilling. The sequence should be something that makes sense with your particular game and that you're likely to see in games. So, for instance, for me, such a sequence might be (1) block; (2) block; (3) attack loose push with my pips; and (4) finish off next high ball with forehand. For you, it's going to be something different, most likely. The sequence also should start simple and only build up as you start feeling more comfortable with each stage.

Maybe that's not the kind of response you were looking for (it's not "here's step 1, here's step 2 and here's step 3"), but unless a coach is working with a kid who's just starting out with a clean slate, he should be tailoring training to the player's abilities and tendencies, so drills need to be individualized for your own preferences, strengths and weaknesses.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 04:34 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
The way I'd think about this is (1) what do you want to do with your long pips (i) against topspin, (ii) against underspin, and (iii) against no-spin; and (2) what is your main offense going to be (long pips rolls or long pips aggressive pushes, forehand loops or flat kills, etc.)? Start with the shots among these that are going to be the bread-and-butter of your game. If, for example, you're a very defensive player who doesn't really attack and feeds off of opponents' errors, then offense is not going to be the main focus of your training at the outset.


I'd like to practice drills that involve a combination of LP BH, and FH ... For example, use LP to create a setup, and then finish-off with a FH attack..

_________________
Setup 1 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 2 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 3 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Reactor Corbor (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 21:40 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
The way I'd think about this is (1) what do you want to do with your long pips (i) against topspin, (ii) against underspin, and (iii) against no-spin; and (2) what is your main offense going to be (long pips rolls or long pips aggressive pushes, forehand loops or flat kills, etc.)? Start with the shots among these that are going to be the bread-and-butter of your game. If, for example, you're a very defensive player who doesn't really attack and feeds off of opponents' errors, then offense is not going to be the main focus of your training at the outset.

So at first, I'd just train the same shot over and over again. If your basic long pips block is shaky, there's no point adding in the footwork and body movement required to transition from that to a forehand loop off of your opponent's push in response to your block. Instead, I'd just take that basic shot (the block, for example) and drill it again and again until you feel good with it. First the ball (preferably through multiball) should be targeted to the same place on the table until you stop making mistakes there, then after you feel comfortable with that, you can transition to blocking all over the table (or all over the backhand side if that's your game). Entirely separately from that, drill, let's say, a long pips push (or whatever you're going to do with your pips against underspin). And go through the same process there. Only once you feel confident with both of these shots in isolation should you, in my view, move to putting them together into a block, push sequence (or a block-block-block-push sequence or whatever). (And then you can also try to incorporate whatever you're going to do with your pips against no-spin, such as a sideswipe or a light topspin roll.) The same is true of attacking. I'd train your pips attacks, forehand loop or forehand smash or whatever SEPARATELY, and only after you feel comfortable with those shots individually, then start putting them together into a plausible sequence for purposes of drilling. The sequence should be something that makes sense with your particular game and that you're likely to see in games. So, for instance, for me, such a sequence might be (1) block; (2) block; (3) attack loose push with my pips; and (4) finish off next high ball with forehand. For you, it's going to be something different, most likely. The sequence also should start simple and only build up as you start feeling more comfortable with each stage.

Maybe that's not the kind of response you were looking for (it's not "here's step 1, here's step 2 and here's step 3"), but unless a coach is working with a kid who's just starting out with a clean slate, he should be tailoring training to the player's abilities and tendencies, so drills need to be individualized for your own preferences, strengths and weaknesses.


I read through your suggestion, once again, and now, I think what you're saying makes more sense - practice shots individually, and then put them into sequence..... currently, although, I TRY playing most of the common/basic LP strokes, they inconsistent.

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Setup 1 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 2 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 3 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Reactor Corbor (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 22:19 
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As a modest suggestion - perhaps settle on one setup and play 95% of the time with it. There are enough small differences between 3 of them in your signature (double inverted does not count ;) ) to lose the feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 04:06 
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pgpg wrote:
As a modest suggestion - perhaps settle on one setup and play 95% of the time with it. There are enough small differences between 3 of them in your signature (double inverted does not count ;) ) to lose the feel.


I play, primarily with the first 2 .. I use the double-inverted, mainly for footwork drills (Falkenberg and such)...

From the first 2, I feel that, with certain players, Setup 1 works best, and against others Setup 2 works best... It's been around 8-9 months, since I've started playing with Long Pips, and I'm still trying to figure-out what works for me, in terms of style and equipment...Currently, I'm play in a mixed style of both, defender and blocker, close to the table, and mid-distance too..

_________________
Setup 1 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 2 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 3 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Reactor Corbor (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 19:35 
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Blade: BTY Diode V
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BH: Tibhar Grass D'Tecs (0,9)
Why don't you settle on a sequence of exercises to begin each practice-session with?
i.e.:
- 15 min basic strokes
- 15 min movement patterns (left-right, in-out, combinations of those)
- 15 min tempo patterns (counter-attack, transition from defense to offense and back, ...)
and only after these continue with other stuff such as
- special exercises (3rd ball attack, service, service receive, tactics against different player types...)
- some match play

A defender must be consistent with every stroke he uses! This outweights by far any fancy effects such as deception or the ability to attack with exceptional spin or speed.

Have a look at Ding Song's or Koji Matsushita instructional videos:





Both start with basic strokes
- fh drive
- bh drive
- fh loop
- fh chop
- bh chop

Then combinations of basic strokes/movement patterns left-right
- chop fh, chop bh, repeat
- chop fh, loop fh, repeat
- loop fh, chop bh, repaet
- chop fh, chop bh, loop fh, repeat
...

Then movement patterns in-out:
- chop loop to fh, push stop to fh, repeat
- chop loop to bh, push stop to bh, repeat
...

Then combinations of movement patterns:
- chop loop to fh, chop loop to bh, push stop to bh, repeat
- chop loop to fh, push stop to fh
...

Then counter-attack:
- chop fh x 2, flat hit stop to fh
- chop bh x 2, flat hit stop to bh
- chop loop to fh, counter-loop loop to fh
- chop loop to bh x 2, counter-loop fh from bh side
...

If you combine these examples with placement-variations and master all of them, you're surely above 2000 USATT...

Oh, and decide on one setup and stick to it. You're saying to do better with one setup against type of player A and better with another one against type of player B? This does not depend on your opponent or your equipment! The different types of players expose different weaknesses of your play. You should analyze what weaknesses these are, find some exercises to work on them and practice.

My recommendation concerning equipment and EJ'ing: use your slowest setup (Defplay). Did I mention that consistency is your main weapon and your best friend? Leave unforced errors to your opponents.

Remember Masato Shiono? He used Defplay, T05 max and Curl P4 0,5 very successfully at professional level. This is not far from your first setup. No need to change it unless of personal taste. When doing so, never change more than one item of your equipment at once (blade, fh rubber, bh rubber) and give it at least two months (>10 full practice sessions) to settle in before evaluating the change.

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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2019, 21:08 
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0x556c69 : Really appreciate your suggestions/advice, and your time... much appreciate it...

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Setup 1 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 2 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 3 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Reactor Corbor (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2019, 19:33 
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These are the drills the coach in China told me to do. The same drills that pretty much every chopper at the school did 50% of the week with some slight variation and the rest 50% was multiball. Practice duration was ~2-3 hours so if you practice considerably less considering spending less time per drill or skip ones that feel too advanced and focus on the basics.

These drills include other than LP Chopping and you can skip the other parts if you feel you want to focus solely on LP Chop

BH Chop from BH corner: 30min
FH Chop from FH corner: 30min
FH Topspin from 60% of the table (forehand corner to slightly over the middle part): 15 min
FH Chop and BH Chop from their respective corners in 1-1 sequence: 30min
FH Topspin from 60% of the table (forehand corner to slightly over the middle part): 15 min
FH/BH Chop from all over the table: 15min
BH Chop down the line, opponent pushes, push back with pimples, opponent loops, - Repeat sequence: 15min.

There are a ton of multiball drills in YouTube if you are interested in those. The coaches stressed that besides repetition the #1 Multiball drill for chopping was the ball feeder giving fast balls in high tempo to FH-BH-FH-BH and the chopper tries to catch all of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2019, 22:27 
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I humbly offer you these suggestions as an intermediate level guy.

Work on every LP shot in isolation doing multiball.
At the table:
vs. Topspin passive block
vs. Topspin Chop block
vs. underspin bump or hit
vs. underspin lifting underspin (opening)
vs. underspin Horizontal push (Inverted style push)

Then away from the table
vs. Topspin Chop off the table
vs. Underspin Horizontal push (inverted style push)

After you feel pretty good about those in isolation do some single ball drills (this will really help you partner too).
Do an alternating topspin/underspin drill.
He gives you simple top - You either passive block, or chop block
He will get underspin and push the ball - You hit, bump, or lift the ball sending topspin back to him
He then topspins the ball back to you and the whole thing starts over.

You will get a rhythm going and even can make a game of it, counting how many times you can successfully do this in a row.

Drill 1-
Once you feel good about that, then move to LP/Inverted combinations.
He sends you top, you passive block or chop block
He pushes to your forehand, then you loop
He blocks the loop to your LPs, and you chop block starting the whole sequence over.

Drill 2-
He sends you top, you chopblock
He pushes to your LP, you bump
He counter tops your bump to your forehand, then you counter loop the topspin
He tries to block it back to your LPs, and you chop block starting the whole sequence over.

There are many more possibilities, but you get the idea.

A third drill could be doing some of this off the table.

Typing this out, it makes me realize how much I should be doing this myself again! I've definitely gotten bored of drilling.

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Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2019, 23:26 
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I added one isolation drill to the top that I forgot.

Vs. Underspin, horizontal push (inverted style push).

This may arguably be the most important drill for choppers as you well get pushes at below 1800 all the time to your LPs, and you need to understand how to keep this low and how to place this, because you might not always be able to twiddle, and even if you do, you need to vary.

If you watch Chtchetinine, the LP horizontal push vs. underspin is one of his most valuable, important, and deadly tools.

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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2019, 23:42 
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You can also go Yangyang Jia YouTube channel and watch her videos, how to play vs long pips and how to play with long pips.

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XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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 Post subject: Re: Recommend LP Drills
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2019, 04:33 
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Thanks - Japsican, Kantron, Loopver, for your suggestions....I try to incorporate atleast some of these in my practice session ..


Japsican wrote:
I humbly offer you these suggestions as an intermediate level guy.

Work on every LP shot in isolation doing multiball.
At the table:
vs. Topspin passive block
vs. Topspin Chop block
vs. underspin bump or hit
vs. underspin lifting underspin (opening)
vs. underspin Horizontal push (Inverted style push)

Then away from the table
vs. Topspin Chop off the table
vs. Underspin Horizontal push (inverted style push)



Yes, I've already incorporated the following, in my practice session ..

vs. Topspin passive block
vs. Topspin Chop block
vs. underspin Horizontal push (Inverted style push)
vs Underspin Push with blade face open
vs Topspin, chopping away from my table

The only thing is, that it's not multiball...

Japsican wrote:
Drill 1-
Once you feel good about that, then move to LP/Inverted combinations.
He sends you top, you passive block or chop block
He pushes to your forehand, then you loop
He blocks the loop to your LPs, and you chop block starting the whole sequence over.


Yep, been doing this one too... Will start with the other recommended drills too..

Thanks, once again!

_________________
Setup 1 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 2 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 3 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Reactor Corbor (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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