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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2019, 21:18 
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I prefer heavier blades. More power?

I thought i answered here. What happened?

Will write shorter now.
Do not want to change rubber so it is frustrating.
would not 802 be a better option than 40? harder? will maybe try DHS 651 aswell. Then boost them if to slow.
I also do not think it is just about hardness. Tried a soft victas, went very well to smash with. So something is odd about the spinpips.

My chinese coach use something like pf4-651? text was upsidedown. Rockhard sponge, with very short pimples. I will ask him. maybe he can help me.

I understand that the blade is important. Played with Mazunov before. Liked it. Good hit with the short pimple, but felt the arc was somewhat low so it was not so controlled. Also think i get more help with inverted bh with ZLC.

Is it like PF4? can i play bh with that? maybe the chinese coach can help me.

I rather try rubbers first and stick with my blade. Then if nothing works i will try mazunov and the blades you mention. To difficult to change everything at once. So i appreciate that you want to lend me blades, but i will try to stick with my ZLC for now.

Thanks for all the help! very appreciated. Too bad my long message did not got sent. tried to quote your text. What happened?


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2019, 21:36 
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Haha, you can go back in time to find better blades, but I don't think that works for rubbers.

651 used to be rock hard, but nowadays it uses a medium-soft sponge, and even a bit slower than 802 (not too much). Sorry to burst your bubble, but your coach must be using old stock sheets (as indicated by PF4-651, its called DHS 651 now), which 1 makes them illegal, and 2 even harder to find than Dolphin.

I don't know, there's something about 802 that's not so crisp feeling (less than 802-40). I always have at least 1-2 sheets of this around, but it's so uninteresting it never stays on my blades. Nowadays 802 is relegated to testing topsheet/sponge combos. You could try gluing 802 to one of your used Dolphin sponges, THAT might make it good/perfect for you hint hint ;) .

Yes, old PF4s are usually basswood blades, especially the PF4-08 versions, they would play GREAT with short pips. Back when I didn't give up on reverse penhold backhand, they worked decent with backhand inverted too. But I was never very good with it so can't comment. Now, I play with 1 rubber only.

Yes, I was always interested in Mazunov, but never tried. It has hardwood outer ply and soft inner core, which by theory is not perfect. BUT it uses thicker outer and medial veneers and a thinner core than most other blades, which can lend some interesting properties. Will probably pick one up just to see...if I don't have so many lined up and so little chances to play these days. If you get the chance, hit a few balls with the Mazunov and tell me if it feels hollow or dense.

BTW ZLC is evil, bad bad bad blade for short pips. Someone sent me an article on vibration dampening materials and it ranks the highest, which means the least feeling. Change it now hahaha.


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2019, 23:43 
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Do you know if there are different versions of example 802, 802-40 and dhs 651? different sponges?

The best option would be to get topsheet and sponge separetly from dolphin, and glue them together. have not found anything about this. Do you know anything?

Know that degu with 802 sponge or something like that is pretty popular. The Japsko guys told me that some that have used Dolphin before now tried that and were satisfied. Almost all swedish players with short pimple use dolphin so a problem over here. The rubber i am talking about is available on their site japsko.se

Is it possible to buy a PF4 that are not crazy expensive? would be interesting to try.

I played with the mazunov a year a two so i liked it. I think i got the feeling i wanted. But then i used dolphin so maybe were the rubber. Do not think it feels hollow. Feels very sturdy, stiff and hard. Maybe a little to much.

I think ZLC works very nice, atleast with the dolphin. If i use the dolphin i think the blade only need to be fast enough and not to "bouncy" and i am good to go. A little less feeling with ZLC, but very easy to play bh and enough feeling for short pimple i think, atleast with dolphin. Do not want to change blade. I think it is works well. I have used mazunov, spirit, clipper in the past.


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2019, 00:26 
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Hi Lula.

I'm not sure what's available from Japsko, but on 729 "official" taobao store in China, they have 35, 38, 40, and 42 degree 802s. I have the 35, 38, and oddly enough 41 degree 802s haha. 802-40 has 38 and 42, but the sponges are different (green vs 802s variations of yellow), the 802-40 38 is faster than anything 802, but haven't tried the 802-40 42. Maybe that's worth a try? No idea on my part though, I gave up on the rubber about a year ago. the 651 I had long time ago was a bright yellow sponge, somewhere around a 729 38 degree, but again, can't be sure, sorry.

Your best bet for cheap PF4-types is Aliexpress. DHS 08 has become sort of a collectors item, so getting expensive, especially the "good" versions. But look for "old" 729/friendship blades, Meteor (maybe A813N), double fish (208), "Shield Brand" etc. Takes some searching, but I'm sure you can find something. Be happy to dig through Chinese sources if you see a link of something interesting. I know DHS/PF4, Friendship, Meteor, and Double Fish have shakehand handle versions, but maybe old Shields only come in penhold. In China, you can get these geuine antiques for 15-30 Euros, so I would say that makes them very cheap.

I've seen ranges from 6mm-8mm. Weight is between 95-124g. Heavier=faster, thicker=faster, but too thick and you might loose feeling. My personal "acceptable" criteria for these blades is 7-7.5mm thick, weight 105-120g. But I only use 1 rubber. Dolphin+inverted would be ~95g by themselves, so make sure you can handle the weight and still flick effectively.

I would offer to send you one from China, but god know how long it will take and shipping would be more than what these things are worth.


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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2019, 02:27 
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Trained again today with my new short pimple rubber. I still think the old one was much much better. But the control is good in this but it is harder to get enough power. But i am trying to work well with the body, so maybe this rubber can benefit my technique. As long as the rotation do not take to much time. So maybe i should try to use the rubber for a while. So if you buy a new rubber maybe you should give it some time. But i still think that i need to find an another rubber that i feel is more similar to the old one. Do not think this rubber is necessary bad, just feel very very different from the other and are better at different things. I like more the hard, stiff, crisp feeling, and the feel that if i put in effort the ball will be much more powerful. So i think harder rubber in general suit me much better. You get much more help and control with softer rubber, but not much happens when you try to play harder shots.

Do not think i will change the blade. I still think it works pretty good for my game. better to try some different rubbers to see which one i find the best in my opinion.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 14:28 
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[quote="gus_goose"]I've never tried this but I know a high level player that used stiga royal instead of dolphin for sponsorship reasons. Not sure about hardness. good luck with spin pips let us know how it goes[/quote]


Who? A rubber that is good is mizuno booster SA . I dont think 802.40 is close to.dolphin


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 21:37 
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I have tried rakza po, victas something,spinpips blue, dolphin and 802 40. The rubbers i have tried and read about seems much softer than dolphin. I want a rubber that is as hard and have similar grip. I think 802 40 have this. Almost same pimple size aswell i think.

But then again i have not tried many rubbers. But i think 802 40 feels close enough compared to spinpips. Spinpips blue were useless.

But i have a hard time to understand why i like the feel of some short pimple rubbers. Bought spinpips blue, because it was suppose to be hard so think it would be good. But the feel of the hit were not there, did not feel lika a short pimple rubber. Tried victas 102 briefly, very soft but felt more like dolphin and had the feel i liked. 802 40 i also think feels more like what i want. I want that crisp, stiff, hard feeling. Which rubbers have this? how do i know? it is obviously not about the sponge hardness.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 21:46 
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Hi Lula,

Having tried similar rubbers, I can guess: Very soft rubbers are good because you are bottoming out and feeling the direct impact of the blade thus crisp. Hard topsheet+soft sponge (802-40) also feels good because it also bottoms out and the hard to soft contrast actually amplifies the crisp feeling. But the spinpips blue is just hard enough to not bottom out, yet not hard enough to provide density by itself, thus feels dull.

Does that sound like it makes sense?

BTW 802-40 used to be my favorite, how are you coping with the speed loss vs Dolphin?


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2019, 22:54 
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Lula wrote:
I have tried rakza po, victas something,spinpips blue, dolphin and 802 40. The rubbers i have tried and read about seems much softer than dolphin. I want a rubber that is as hard and have similar grip. I think 802 40 have this. Almost same pimple size aswell i think.

But then again i have not tried many rubbers. But i think 802 40 feels close enough compared to spinpips. Spinpips blue were useless.

But i have a hard time to understand why i like the feel of some short pimple rubbers. Bought spinpips blue, because it was suppose to be hard so think it would be good. But the feel of the hit were not there, did not feel lika a short pimple rubber. Tried victas 102 briefly, very soft but felt more like dolphin and had the feel i liked. 802 40 i also think feels more like what i want. I want that crisp, stiff, hard feeling. Which rubbers have this? how do i know? it is obviously not about the sponge hardness.


With 802 40 you can try many sponges but. I think the arc playing with 40+ makes this rubber obsolete


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2019, 01:19 
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Not sure about it being soft sponge. I think Dolphin had a hard sponge and that felt good. I also do not feel that 802 40 seems so much softer when i press it compared to spinpips blue. Can it be that dolphin was hard enough, and the victas was so soft that it went through to the blade, while spinpips just was something inbetween? Our new chinese coach that have played at a very very high level in China is the generation of short pimple penholder. He thought spinpips maybe have longer pimples.

Maybe 802 40 is slower than Dolphin but at the moment it feels like it is fast enough and i use it without any booster, with a 1,8 sponge. usually have thicker bot gut the rubber from a friend. I think it is much more about technique, that you a have a short contact and fast arm. I often see alot of players that use short pimple but have no clue how to use it. Do you guys think it is much slower compared to dolphin? Spinpips blue was much much much slower than 802 40.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2019, 03:22 
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I'm beginning to wonder if you got a fake sheet of Spinpips lol. Used 802-40 for years, doesn't even come near the speed of the other 2. Is the 802-40 on a custom sponge?


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2019, 04:48 
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I think I'm going to pick up a 42 degree 802-40 just to see.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2019, 06:41 
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Tried 802 40 on my regular blade TB ZLC tonight. Felt it maybe was better on the more bouncy TB Spirit. On the TB ZLC it felt even harder and more dead.

A bosted haifu dolphin is definely faster and easier to play with. But i do not know if a unboosted Dolphin is faster than a unboosted 802 40 that i use now. Spinpips was maybe faster, but the rubber was very bad to smash with.

If i use my regular technique with the unboosted 802 40 i feel that i can kill the ball. This was not possible with spinpips blue. I find it interesting that 802 40 is supposed to have a soft sponge, it feels a bit to hard and maybe a bit on the slow side. I need to hit the ball properly with good technique to get a good smash.

At the moment i am changing the technique a bit so i think i will use this for a while, then buy an 802 40 in the thickest sponge possible. I have always have the thickest sponge before so i think the 802 40 also will feel better then and maybe a bit softer. If i still feel that 802 40 feels a little hard maybe i should boost it a little, so it becomes a little more safe. It is very unforgiving at the moment, but it is proably good for my technique in the long term i think. At the moment i can not rely so much on a soft sponge to help me.

Yes, i think it is a regular 802 40. Tell me what you think. I will be very surprised if you like the spinpips better, but maybe i smash more than you do and you play another kind of style.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2019, 21:20 
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Hey Lula it's me skyline from mytt. have you considered trying a harder and more solid blade? I would recommend a Tamca 5000 blade like Primorac Carbon. I have used TBS before and compared to the Primorac Carbon it feels like a vibrator you are much more effected by the incoming spin and hits feel a lot less solid. I have using Rakza PO max and tibhar speedy soft dtecs 2.0 for the last 1.5 months now. With this blade both rubbers feel very solid when flat hitting even though the Speedy Soft Dtecs is known to have a very soft sponge. IMHO zlc are too catapultyandand woody for short pips play.

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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2019, 18:26 
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Hey! Nice to see you hear!

I have tried clipper and mazunov before. Then Spirit and now ZLC. I think Haifu Dolphin worked good with all of them. 802 40 with no booster that i use now have a very hard and dead feeling so i do not find the blade to such a big problem. There are proably more feeling in a wooden blade so that would be good, but i think the wooden blade is good enough. I have tried a friends t5000 and it is very fast. Since i have inverted on the backhand i do not know if i can have such a fast blade.

I think such a fast blade can be a good option with double short pimple rubbers. How is the control? How do you like rakza po? i think it is not so much grip in it.


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