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PostPosted: 06 Jun 2019, 23:42 
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Just done couple of hours of browsing through articles and videos on correct racket grip...
tried to find the position the racket should be at the contact point.
Nothing.

My understanding that the racket's axis should be horizontal (parallel to the ground) and the racket face is closed (degree depends on the shot).

I could not do it.
I could not stretch my wrist to have the axis run horizontal, and while I managed to stretch it (almost painful!) I could not close racket face... What am I doing wrong I wonder?

I need to put my two fingers (index and middle) on the racket face to force the racket face to close on forehand shot.

And extended wrist to make racket horizontal is also very uncomfortable.

Appreciate if anyone can point me to any reading/video material to understand this.
Thanks!


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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2019, 05:24 
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Film yourself while doing a few FH strokes. Even a few seconds should be enough for people to give you advice.


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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2019, 05:30 
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If you are a tennis player then think of the stroke you need to play when the ball bounces on the baseline and rises quickly .... That requires you to close the racket face and play a "Nadal" like Forehand TopSpin return .... :-)

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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2019, 13:42 
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in other words....
My FH grip in lawn tennis is semi western, which makes your palm facing same way as the racket face.
Very natural grip as it makes your racket a continuation of your hand.

What they describe as the correct TT grip by the book is more close to what we call Continental grip,
the grip which was common before modern rackets and topspin came along.

It is indeed possible for a person with continental grip to play FH and BH without changing grip.
Not with Semi western, you have to change grip between FH and BH.

Anyway, as they say, in the correct TT grip, V of you palm should be facing racket face edge.
In such position, when your wrist is relaxed, your racket main axis is facing almost 90 deg up.
So I need to bend my wrist (ulnar deviation is the term apparently) to make the racket axis align with my forearm.

My question is - do I have to align main axis of the racket with my forearm to produce correct shots?
Does the main racket axis be parallel to the ground at the point of contact?
Or it can be pointed a bit upward?

Also, in such ulnar deviated position it extremely uncomfortable to PRONATE my wrist to close racket face, while ulnar deviating my index finger even more so it sits at the bottom of the rubber!!!!!!!!!
BTW I have absolutely normal wrist dexterity.

Thanks!!!


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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2019, 13:54 
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Most people will drop the racket head - in other words the wrist is bent downwards. I don't think you necessarily have to have the axis of the bat absolutely parallel with the forearm, however. Not many people in table tennis changes grips between forehand and backhand (unless you're a penhold player, and then it gets complicated) - if they do it's a very minor change. But yeah, you do need to close the racket face for most topspin strokes, particularly against topspin.

Perhaps you should go back and watch Yangyang's videos more closely.. see what she does when if comes to grip and racket angle.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2019, 14:25 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Most people will drop the racket head - in other words the wrist is bent downwards. I don't think you necessarily have to have the axis of the bat absolutely parallel with the forearm, however. Not many people in table tennis changes grips between forehand and backhand (unless you're a penhold player, and then it gets complicated) - if they do it's a very minor change. But yeah, you do need to close the racket face for most topspin strokes, particularly against topspin.

Perhaps you should go back and watch Yangyang's videos more closely.. see what she does when if comes to grip and racket angle.. :lol:

Iskandar

Yep, I have been to Yangyang videos lately and liked them.

Here is interesting talk about the grip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXAXpZ8jRZw


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2019, 22:21 
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Ok... so the "normal" grip only works for me on BH.
That is also my normal grip, no issues there.

However, on my FH my index and middle fingers go all the way up, forcing racket face to close and right behind the ball.

This might have hurt my career as pro TT player, but I kinda think it will not hurt my chances at the club tennis level.

Cheers


Last edited by Zverev on 09 Jun 2019, 12:14, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2019, 00:53 
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Try bending your knees more. As low as you can comfortably get. At the same time lean forward and bring your shoulder as low as you can comfortably get. This will alleviate some strain on your wrist.

You knees, upper thigh, and lower back will hurt in the beginning, but it's all about conditioning.

Most coaches will advise against riding your index finger on the blade.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2019, 00:57 
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With full Western, your palm is naturally at an open position or even facing upwards. This doesn't work for table tennis. Try to maintain a contact angle of 45-60 degrees depending on your ability to brush and generate racket speed. Tune the rest of your body to accommodate that.

You can try a semi-western grip to facilitate an easier forehand but note it will hurt your backhand and TT is too fast to effectively switch grips in between shots. A few people take the easy way out by using pips on their backhand for this reason.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2019, 04:42 
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45-60 degrees from the vertical is a bit extreme, you'd only need this for blocking heavy topspin or doing counterloops from 5-7 feet behind the table (the sort of thing you often see in those rubber review videos). For normal forehand topspin drives, the bat will be a lot more vertical - maybe 15-30 degrees from the vertical, while the stroke is more forwards that upwards, through the ball.

Few people will put two fingers behind the blade. The middle finger should be curled around the handle, not up against the back of the blade. The index finer is usually held low on the blade, parallel with the bottom edge of the rubber.

I know nothing of tennis grips - reading this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grip_(tennis)

doesn't make things any clearer.. :lol:

Here's a couple of videos on the subject.





The second one's more useful I think. He mentions the actual grip, where to put the thumb, where to put the fingers, whether or not you should change finger positions from forehand to backhand, etc.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2019, 14:08 
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I find this guy slightly irritating with his "Chinese philosophy" excursions... kinda sounds patronizing..
The Chinese are only good in this sport as it's a national sport of 1.5 billion people, massive talent pool...
TT is a side sport for the rest of the world... well behind soccer, basketball, hockey, footballs of all kinds, etc...

Anyway, calming down now... he does have many good points, besides "you see his face? that means he's squeezing his thumb against index finger"... ha-ha-ha... but here, I think I got it.

I pushed my hand way up the handle into the rubber (I even thought why the heck do I need the handle, I am not using it).
Once I moved my hand a bit down, so my thumb can rest on the handle bevel, it became much easier to do ulnar deviation and wrist pronation at the same time.

However, IMPROTANT!, putting my two finger up the racket face and behind the ball allowed me to contact the ball with correct racket face angle way earlier in front of me, than with correct grip.
I know why I developed this technique.... because we have two meters behind each side of the table, way too small!
I can't let the ball to fly to my side, as I would hit the wall with my hand! I have to contact it earlier with correct angle, and my two fingers make sure of that.

Cheers!!!!


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 03:49 
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Zverev wrote:
I find this guy slightly irritating with his "Chinese philosophy" excursions... kinda sounds patronizing..
The Chinese are only good in this sport as it's a national sport of 1.5 billion people, massive talent pool...
TT is a side sport for the rest of the world... well behind soccer, basketball, hockey, footballs of all kinds, etc...


Even in China table tennis is a "side sport" - there's a great deal more money being spent on, say, football and basketball, with professional leagues, and teams being rich enough to import top players from Europe and South America. But make no mistake - it's not the large talent pool alone that makes for a dominant China in table tennis - if that were so, they'd be good at ALL sports (they SUCK at football, at the international level, but are also dominant in badminton and diving). In table tennis, though - their coaching is second to none. And they didn't get that way by being dogmatic - they constantly analyze everything, which is how they manage to adapt to potential rivals (currently, Japan's young players) and new styles of play. So annoying or not, there is a lot you can learn from EmRat Thich. He understands and reads Chinese, and he does seem to have access to material pretty much no one else on YouTube who speaks English does.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 11:43 
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That's Ok.
He can keep bragging about his "Chinese philosophy" stuff.

Anyway, back to the point.

I find myself a bit torn apart, as being a big proponent of correct grips and techniques in lawn tennis, I am not entirely convinced that the grip suggested is the ONLY grip possible.
I mean the main point is that same grip MUST be used for both FH and BH as the game is too fast.
However as one positions himself for FH or BH, wouldn't be sufficient time there to move index finger down or up, based on the shot.
Maybe not, I don't know.
Another difference from lawn tennis as there is plenty of time to change grip between shots.

Index finger on the racket help me to contact ball earlier, which I see as advantage.
Must think more about whole thing.
Cheers.


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 14:56 
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I don't think there's only one type of grip that's viable. I've known people use two fingers on the blade, etc. I suppose, for an extreme example, take Danny Seemiller. He dominated US table tennis for maybe 10-15 years in the 1980s and 90s until a new group of Chinese immigrants (Cheng Yinhua, Fan Yiyong, etc.) started playing. Seemiller used what we now call the Seemiller Grip, so did his chief rival Eric Boggan. With the Seemiller Grip, you rotate the bat from its normal position in the shakehands grip anticlockwise (for a right hander) by about 60-70 degrees. The thumb and index finger now lie along the edges of one side of the blade. The forehand resembles a normal shakehands forehand, but the backhand is taken with the same side of the bat as the forehand. Seemiller had a sheet of anti on the back side of the blade, he could bring this into play by twiddling, or on the backhand side by twisting the wrist. This allowed for really spectacular drop shots in the middle of full-speed counterlooping rallies. The grip does have its weaknesses - the lack of a backhand loop for instance (Seemiller admitted to this on one of his training tapes) but it's advantage was (like penhold) there is no forehand-backhand transition.

There are actually many variations of this grip - you'll see them being used by all sorts of players up to 2400+ level (Seemiller himself is still rated over 2500 and is still playing), and it's got its aficionados (on this forum and elsewhere). Attend any large tournament or play at a large club, you'll see them in use. But you won't see these grips in use by coached, up-and-coming 2000+ rated teenagers because they aren't being TAUGHT, perhaps for good reason. More comically, you see large numbers of young men, usually who live in fraternities, who use an even more extreme grip with the thumb pressed up against the back of the blade. A forehand "drive" requires an extreme lean over to the left. I think they teach each other this grip, and they just bat the ball back across the table at each other. And complain when they lose to non-frat players in the Intramurals.

We haven't even mention penhold yet.. :lol: That used to be the default grip around here, but it's gone into steep decline since the 1990s.. It used to be that everyone here played that way and all the cheap bats sold in stores were penhold bats.

Iskandar


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