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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 03:25 
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P.S. :devil: Are there any ITTF rules for stores??? Not yet?? :rofl: :rofl: :devil:


They're coming. ITTF wants a 15% cut of each sale. :cash: :cash: :cash:

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 19:27 
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Yesterday I mailed the Dr. Neubauer company with the following question:

"Dear Sir, Dear Madam,

I was very interested into buying the Super Block Extreme when I first saw it appearing on your website. However, I was visiting your website to buy the product and I saw it was gone. When will it be available again?

Sincerely,

[My name]"


The Doc himself replied the following:

"Dear Mr. [my name],

Thank you for your email and your interest in our products.

I'm afraid that we cannot sell 'Super Block Extreme' any more, since ITTF does not want any frictionless long pimples on the market, even without ITTF logo.

We are sorry for this situation

Regards

Carsten Neubauer
Dr.Neubauer Table Tennis"


Firstly, they are extremely open about the issue. I suppose I'm not the only one having asked this question and being answered in this way.
Secondly, this is information from the horse's mouth like requested by the non-believers!

If anyone wants confirmation by looking at the original document (i.e. the e-mail), PM me.

I still find this outrageous and I hope the Neubauer company files a lawsuit against the ITTF. This is scandalous.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 19:53 
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Wow. Congratulations Lorre. Great detective work getting to the bottom of this scandal.

Kind of ridiculous for the ITTF to ban this clearly non-approved recreational rubber. They really hate defense-at-the-table, mainly because of Dr. Neubauer's many world veterans championships compared to Ebby Schoeler's TOTAL FAILURE in veterans competition.

The fact remains that everyone knows "Super Block" is banned. But thanks to the ITTF's fear of frictionless LPs, people who want to play Neubauer-style will continue to buy ITTF-approved pips (complete with ITTF logo and number) that have been treated.

These will be much harder to regulate.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 20:02 
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Lorre wrote:

But that retaliation would also be illegal, wouldn't it? And also that might be taken to court, urgent procedure.


Good luck with that. Proving retaliation is court is probably harder than proving racism


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 20:24 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Wow. Congratulations Lorre. Great detective work getting to the bottom of this scandal.


Ok, I'm prepared to believe that ITTF has very likely pressured DrN into removing the rubber.

Let me say, if this is the case then I believe ITTF is making a major mistake and should not be interfering in the lawful business practices of a manufacturer. After all, DrN should be allowed to sell all kinds of rubbers, including those which are not permissible in competition.

mynamenotbob wrote:
thanks to the ITTF's fear of frictionless LPs, people who want to play Neubauer-style will continue to buy ITTF-approved pips (complete with ITTF logo and number) that have been treated.

What? What! Are you admitting that some players treat their pips illegally? Are you admitting that some players are knowingly altering the playing characteristics of their long pimples even when that is expressly forbidden in the rules of table tennis?

Are you finally admitting, after years and years of denials, that the "recreational and experimental" section of this very forum is in fact designed to help people cheat? Are you finally admitting that so-called "recreational" players are using illegal rubbers in competion?

You and I both know this is true and has been true from the creation of this section of the forum.


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 21:19 
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birchamboi wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
thanks to the ITTF's fear of frictionless LPs, people who want to play Neubauer-style will continue to buy ITTF-approved pips (complete with ITTF logo and number) that have been treated.

What? What! Are you admitting that some players treat their pips illegally? Are you admitting that some players are knowingly altering the playing characteristics of their long pimples even when that is expressly forbidden in the rules of table tennis?

Are you finally admitting, after years and years of denials, that the "recreational and experimental" section of this very forum is in fact designed to help people cheat? Are you finally admitting that so-called "recreational" players are using illegal rubbers in competion?

You and I both know this is true and has been true from the creation of this section of the forum.

They sell professionally treated pips on German ebay, so it's reasonable to assume that some players over there may have used these rubbers in competition just as some players (likely a much larger number) have tuned their inverted rubbers. That is cheating. People shouldn't do it. That said, I don't recall ever playing anyone that I suspected had treated pips, so it must be a rare occurrence.

The "recreational and experimental" section contains information for people who have an interest in customizing their set-ups. Players have enjoyed experimenting like this for many decades and for recreational play it's perfectly fine. When the section started, you might recall that there was a vote and a majority of forum members voted for no censorship on any table tennis topics. The rules of that section clearly state that this forum encourages fair play and does not endorse any type of cheating.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 22:40 
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DonBradman wrote:
Lorre wrote:

But that retaliation would also be illegal, wouldn't it? And also that might be taken to court, urgent procedure.


Good luck with that. Proving retaliation is court is probably harder than proving racism


It's not the fact that it's retaliation that needs to be proven, but the fact of it being illegal.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 22:57 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
birchamboi wrote:
Are you finally admitting, after years and years of denials, that the "recreational and experimental" section of this very forum is in fact designed to help people cheat?

When the section started, you might recall that there was a vote and a majority of forum members voted for no censorship on any table tennis topics. The rules of that section clearly state that this forum encourages fair play and does not endorse any type of cheating.


mynamenotbob is spot on with this...and i think I've explained this to you personally as well, but perhaps you forgot? It goes something like this;

We used to have never-ending arguments about topics on equipment that's not legal for competition (which you call cheating)... some felt these topics should not be allowed so that players are not tempted to cheat, while others felt we should be able to talk about any topic without it being censored. After a vote we decided that censorship is not what we want in this forum, but these discussions should be moved to a separate section that was not visible to non-members (i.e. you need to be a member and logged in to read it), nor to Google, so that people would not be attracted to this forum just to discuss these topics, and non-members would not even see these topics. Since you're a member, you might not be even aware of this.

So the purpose was actually to discourage 'cheating' without imposing censorship. You might choose not to believe this, or feel that it's not actually an effective way of doing this, but that does not change the fact that this was our intention.

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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2019, 05:11 
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I'm afraid that we cannot sell 'Super Block Extreme' any more, since ITTF does not want any frictionless long pimples on the market, even without ITTF logo

We are sorry for this situation

Regards

Carsten Neubauer
Dr.Neubauer Table Tennis



Well, as I mentioned before, why does the Ittf permit FL rubbers to be sold on Aliexpress and even with the ITTF logo, which is even more scandalous???

Why does the ITTF say they don't want any FL long pimples on the market when this scandal is going on on Aliexpress?

aha!!! the Chinese market,...nobody wants to mess up with the Chinese..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why hasn't D.N filed a formal complaint??? ...... it seems the Doc prefers to be in the hands of the ITTF now ??? ....

Listen ITTF smart guys!! FL pips will never die as long as there is a black market of treated rubbers.
You know this already as you know that many pros tune their rubbers illegally.

You will never kill close to the table defence ,.... AH!! BUT YOU LET THIS HAPPEN IN THE CHINESE MARKET :

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/3237102564 ... 8d04THiNEZ

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/3223824310 ... 1ed8VcS96h

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/3298168725 ... 5b00qXR7k2

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/3296168465 ... 309bTpdu1m

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3263773 ... 1f6fWboc4r

THIS last ONE has been banned shortly after the FL ban if I recall correctly but, no problem mate, here is Aliexpress so you can get it at an affordable price but beware Doc , you cannot sell SB extreme :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: ,......

ITTF we do love you!! :lol: :lol: :lol: ,....you incarnate the stupidity in TT ,.... please, take care !!


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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2019, 09:44 
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Interesting chat. Can I ask this one question. What is the big deal with frictionless LPs in the first place? I cant see them being any more challenging to play against and with then any other rubber when you have an understanding of how the game plays. Just like any other sport there are learning curves we all need to ascend to improve.

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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2019, 10:30 
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apophis wrote:
Interesting chat. Can I ask this one question. What is the big deal with frictionless LPs in the first place? I cant see them being any more challenging to play against and with then any other rubber when you have an understanding of how the game plays. Just like any other sport there are learning curves we all need to ascend to improve.

Mainly it's the optics. The ITTF doesn't like older players standing at the table blocking down their beloved athletic loopers. They claim juniors get frustrated and quit. It never dawned on them to teach juniors the skills to overcome frictionless LPs, which would just be a step in their development.

Also the main influence behind this attitude at the ITTF has a personal grudge against long pips and especially against Neubauer as referenced earlier.

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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2019, 13:43 
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It seems strange to target this one kind of rubber. I played against them in the past and didnt find them particularly frustrating once I had worked out what they did to the ball. . . its not difficult if you want to learn.

I found it no more difficult then playing anti-spin or other low friction/frictionless rubbers. Plus, there was plenty of 10yr old sheets of LPs that were essentially frictionless from age, I still find these guys about today and still don't really find it hard to adapt. More getting beaten by better players. I know while equipment helps, it is not going to cause a win outright. You need to have experience with playing against or with the equipment coupled with your training and skill to overcome the opponent.

I still think its a little heavy handed to impose a ban on one group and not others, specially with threats of removal of licensed goods.

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PostPosted: 10 Oct 2019, 18:25 
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The success of Fabian Åkerström at the Junior world champs (or was it only European champs) where he uses frictionless LP very successful might have been what made ITTF to change the rules for lower friction limit on pinple out rubbers. But that rule only concerns pimple out rubbers, not others. So the frictiobless antis have no such limit. And they get better and better. I have a friend who plays secound highest league in Sweden, just a tad below Fabian's level. He used to play Super Block, now Reflection or Diabolic or ABS2 or similar. Here in Sweden we all uses Stiga Perform, the least spinny of all ABS-balls. Now, he also got a sheet of this new Super Block Extreme. And even though the feeling was great, the spin reversal with ABS balls was not that good. Most modern frictionless antis are far better in this aspect.

So... Is it just a matter of time before there will be a friction limit for anti as well?

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PostPosted: 10 Oct 2019, 20:49 
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Def-attack wrote:
The success of Fabian Åkerström at the Junior world champs (or was it only European champs) where he uses frictionless LP very successful might have been what made ITTF to change the rules for lower friction limit on pinple out rubbers. But that rule only concerns pimple out rubbers, not others. So the frictiobless antis have no such limit. And they get better and better. I have a friend who plays secound highest league in Sweden, just a tad below Fabian's level. He used to play Super Block, now Reflection or Diabolic or ABS2 or similar. Here in Sweden we all uses Stiga Perform, the least spinny of all ABS-balls. Now, he also got a sheet of this new Super Block Extreme. And even though the feeling was great, the spin reversal with ABS balls was not that good. Most modern frictionless antis are far better in this aspect.

So... Is it just a matter of time before there will be a friction limit for anti as well?

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I don't think the skill of a particular player is sufficient argument to change the rules.The changes are not skin-deep,really.

FL antis have been on the market for a long time,I don't think they will change the rules for them,however, I do know, some pros modify them already :lol: so what we see as effective on the video promotion, it is even more effective at the pro level, why?,... ask the pros what liquid they use to make the rubber more slippery. TT is a farce , really, especially at the pro level .

Then, there comes us, the mortals of tt, :lol: :lol: who have a passion for this sport and the ITTF does not let us play more happily by banning a decent style of play with a decent type of rubber, with decent players all over the world .

Then, we can see the manufacturers,who seem to have their hands tied by the demands of a dictatorial organization, called ITTF,which is supposed to take care of TT . In fact, it is the other way round , at least in the case of FL pips .


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