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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 10:46 
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This is a summary of the PMs between Greggy and me when I was asking him for advice on chopping.

There's some very good stuff here indeed. Personally I think it should be hosted on the pips website.

I think most of the choppers here will find it useful.

Please direct ALL thanks to Greggy, I just did a bit of editing.

Many thanks again Greggy.

---------------------------------
Footwork
As you may know I (Greggy) came form a badminton background and re learning footwork for TT was hard. In Badminton you step your right foot towards the ball (assuming you are right handed) but with TT you do not. That was hard to stop doing. A few things that helped me with my chopping:
1.You must always try to return to base after each stroke, with a little bounce (called a hyperflexic move)
2. Step behind the long chops with your back foot, BH left foot FH right foot.
3. Move to the left you move your right foot first, move it towards the left and as it gets within 400mm (4cm) you move your left foot [in other words you move like a crab]. And the opposite for going to the right move your left first. I try to think of my feet having magnets on them as one foot approaches the other the magnets repel the other foot away from the one moving towards it.
4. Advanced Footwork
Next advanced technique is to do with your foot placement on short chops, from base (neutral position) you step in with your left foot then your right foot, but you must turn your right toe out to open up your body. This has been a big problem for me the short chop that I take too early and end up with my wrist leading into the shot. This is wrong and will cause the ball to pop up (as my coach says) and you get no spin.

[Thus the mid-table position for point 4. is 2 steps from the table].

The Stroke (Advanced)
1. Start with blade high as your ear.
2. Try to almost catch the ball with the rubber in a vertical plane, not spin it on the downward stroke [i.e. no wrist]
3. To achieve point 2 use a micro pause just before you push forward with the blade at a horizontal plane this stroke must be forward towards the landing area on the table not across your body (like I see many chopper do, this will lose the chop)
4. Lift the blade slightly up at the end of the stroke this adds chop.

Ball contact
1. Take the bottom of the stroke just before the push through at just below my hip. It is a common mistake to take the ball too high. [In other words take the ball on the descent]. This will generate alot of chop.

You have to start with the blade vertical to the floor, take the in coming ball on the bottom of the blade roll the ball up the blade and as it leaves the blade your blade should now be 45 degrees to floor and just as the ball leaves the blade a small flick up of the bottom of the blade to lift the ball upwards. This will impart huge chop, also you can feel the pimples bending and you know it is going to be spiny, This is the that squashy soft feeling you sometimes get against a spiny loop and you just know that your return will be a killer.

Additional advice on chopping
1. If they loop spiny chop soft
2. If they hit hard I should use fast action.
3. If they hit ( not loop ) then a fast downwards action with a small push through at end.

Note on the micro-pause
The micro pause is the same as a loop micro pause at the bottom of the stroke, I did post a topic on this and it was not received well so I do not mention this again.

[When looping it is common for the timing of the loop or hit to be out]. A loop has three parts back swing, pause and then upwards swing. Lots of people forget the pause.
Advantages of the micro-pause:
1. It changes you whole timing [of the stroke] and generate much more spin.
2. It stops you from falling forward [or backwards] at the end of the stroke
3. [It is common within a game to rush in and forget the micropause].

If you watch [profesional] players they appear to [always] arrive in time already with the back swing completed then they pause and stroke the ball. In summary, arrive swing back pause then release.

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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2009, 08:56 
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Just printed it out. Will read soon and reply :)

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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2009, 09:26 
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Thanks Mathias for summarisaing this, and an even bigger THANK YOU Greggy for your great and expert advice!

There's so many good tips there, it's going to take me a while to get through them all... I find I can really only focus on one or two things at the time when I practice :(

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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2009, 09:37 
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Mathias wrote:
Quote:
3. Move to the left you move your right foot first, move it towards the left and as it gets within 400mm (4cm) you move your left foot [in other words you move like a crab]. And the opposite for going to the right move your left first. I try to think of my feet having magnets on them as one foot approaches the other the magnets repel the other foot away from the one moving towards it.

Thanks for passing this on. Footwork has always been one of my main weaknesses and I'm sure I've always moved my right foot first when moving right either because I'm lazy and pivot too much or because I thought I needed to get my right foot out of the way before my left stepped on it! Now I even have a good idea of how big my steps should be. Like the magnet visualisation too.

This is very basic but vital info for me and something I'm actually excited about practicing.

Thanks for the sharing.


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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2009, 10:01 
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Hmm, crab movement (#3) and pauses -- I recall we did talk about it in one of the threads, I'd better revisit that. Crab movement, I have to look at my own footwork.

Greggy, thanks for sharing these. Mathias, thanks for editing.

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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2009, 00:06 
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Nice tips. Pardon my ignorance, but who is Greggy?


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2009, 03:27 
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Mathias wrote:
1.You must always try to return to base after each stroke, with a little bounce (called a hyperflexic move)


"Hyperflexic move" seems overkill to me. It certainly isn't as useful in TT as it is in badminton, IMO. (If I'm thinking about the same thing as you, I would call it a pre-tension bounce. Never heard of "hyperflexic" before, wikipedia offers no explanation :roll: )

Mathias wrote:
3. Move to the left you move your right foot first, move it towards the left and as it gets within 400mm (4cm) you move your left foot [in other words you move like a crab]. And the opposite for going to the right move your left first. I try to think of my feet having magnets on them as one foot approaches the other the magnets repel the other foot away from the one moving towards it.


Typo probably: 400mm = 40cm (4cm is pretty close :wink: )



Pretty good stuff you got there! 8)
If only you could keep all of these tips in mind when playing a tight game...

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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2009, 23:25 
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Yuzuki wrote:
Hmm, crab movement (#3) and pauses -- I recall we did talk about it in one of the threads, I'd better revisit that. Crab movement, I have to look at my own footwork.

Greggy, thanks for sharing these. Mathias, thanks for editing.


I better jump in here. That was my interpritation of what I though Greggy said. He explained the footwork as each foot having a repelling magnet. I may be wrong describing it as a 'crab move'

If the text is in [] it means its stuff I've added (mostly to put together a few PMs). Also if the text starts "In other words.." I am attempting to summarize what Greggy has said.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2009, 02:52 
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He's right about the side to side footwork. What Mathias calls crab movement (which is effective because it gives an instant mental picture), others may know as parallel footwork, or shuffle stepping.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2009, 20:34 
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Thanks for the feed back, re hyperflexic true maybe a badminton term but what it means is a mini movement back to base after a shot, My coach say jump back to base position.

BTW I am currently playing NZ Vets champs, made it to main draw in 40 and 50's knocked out of 40 today, but tomorrow 50,s singles, double and mixed. had super good partner in 40 mixed but I let the side down and only made it to last 8. She won 40 women's. Oh I am not worthy but she was nice anyway. Did beat top seed in my group of 50's but lost to Craig Campbell in 40's 11-4, 11-8, 11-8 and he said he had to work hard to beat me and he liked my game, For the Aussy's out there you will know Craig hard work to beat. Tomorrow big day like today start at 8.30 till about 9 at night. Shall report back later

Cheers

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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2009, 07:08 
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Thanks again Greggy for sharing. Please do keep up the tips and info. I'll update where possible.

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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2009, 12:09 
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Greggy wrote:
Thanks for the feed back, re hyperflexic true maybe a badminton term but what it means is a mini movement back to base after a shot, My coach say jump back to base position.

BTW I am currently playing NZ Vets champs, made it to main draw in 40 and 50's knocked out of 40 today, but tomorrow 50,s singles, double and mixed. had super good partner in 40 mixed but I let the side down and only made it to last 8. She won 40 women's. Oh I am not worthy but she was nice anyway. Did beat top seed in my group of 50's but lost to Craig Campbell in 40's 11-4, 11-8, 11-8 and he said he had to work hard to beat me and he liked my game, For the Aussy's out there you will know Craig hard work to beat. Tomorrow big day like today start at 8.30 till about 9 at night. Shall report back later

Cheers

Gregg



hey gregg, did you play a fella called David Engstrom, or see him there? he's a player in my grade at my club.

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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2009, 12:22 
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Yes I played him in Doubles and mixed only, I have to own up and I won both times. But he was good and uses 802 on BH well. He gave some of our better players a run and beat some good ones. I think if we played it would have been a good game. He missed lots of his serves off the end of the table. I guess a similar level to my play. How do you go against him?

Any other Aussie you know went.

Did you know I top 40's guy beat Paul Pinkwick in 40 final, and beat him good. The first point of first game was a edge to Pinky and that was the only point Pinky go in that game. Others I think 2 and 3. Our guy won singles doubles and mixed. I made last eight of mixed 40 lost to Bill Robson, got through 2 rounds of 40's and 50's doubles, one round of 50's mixed, made it to main draw of 40's and 50's and lost to same person in both. Did beat top seed in my 50's round robin to qualify first. That was strange game I won 4 11-0 and won 5Th game 16-14.

Gregg

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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2009, 15:32 
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he was probably desperately nervous, when he plays in my fixture grade her doesnt usually miss his serves. he's got a bit of an edge on me, he has beaten me the last 3 times we played.

as an indicator, he's number 1 in the division, i'm number 5 (out of eighteen) so im a bit lower than him. im a bit far off veteran though ;)

sounds like your guy was on fire, beating pinky is a big deal. he's a nasty chopper and has some very good technique. taught me a few things with pimps.

David's wife went as well, Judy engstrom. i dont know if she's at the same level as him. from our club i'm not sure if there was anybody else.

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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2009, 13:03 
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Yes I played against her in mixed, maybe even last 8 of 40's She was with Bill Robson. I was playing with top over 40'd lady, ex number 28 in the world but we lost. She is really good and was the weak link.

Judy I think played LP in BH, I did notice that about 5 people used Dr Neubauer Combi effects blade but I was the only the NZer.

What division do you play? Here in Christchurch we have 6 divisions and I play top division. But I am the weakest player in my team. My other team mates are current NZ 40 test match player, and Korea female ( who plays SP BH and smashes with FH smooth number 6 women in NZ but is really number 3) Other member ex Provincial number 1 player for 80's.

Cheers

Gregg

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