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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2011, 04:12 
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Paddy's Paddler
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found this site if anyone is interested. so many variations of Dtecs

http://www.tabletennisdirect.com/produc ... x?R=9&S=37

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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2011, 05:08 
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decoy wrote:
found this site if anyone is interested. so many variations of Dtecs

http://www.tabletennisdirect.com/produc ... x?R=9&S=37


Dtecs stands for the built-in glue effect...

Imagine all kinds of Grass DTechs rubbers! With different pip heights, spacing, flexibility, sponge hardness,... :party:

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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2011, 06:38 
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Lorre wrote:
decoy wrote:
found this site if anyone is interested. so many variations of Dtecs

http://www.tabletennisdirect.com/produc ... x?R=9&S=37


Dtecs stands for the built-in glue effect...

Imagine all kinds of Grass DTechs rubbers! With different pip heights, spacing, flexibility, sponge hardness,... :party:


Well, part of this is my fault, using the name D.TecS a little sloppy (well, most of us do). I should have named the thread "Grass D.TecS" since "D.TecS" only is the name of the sponge, not the top sheet.

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2011, 04:31 
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I've got my rubbers a day sooner, because my table tennis distributor is taking a break tomorrow. Like I mentioned, I bought a Rakza 7 2.0mm rd on the forehand and a Grass DTecs 1.6mm blck on the backhand. Well, both sponges are huge when compared to my normal setup (see my signature)... I'm very excited to play tomorrow.

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2011, 06:21 
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I'll be waiting at the computer Lorre :)

Tried a few hits today with my not-so-worn D.TecS and there was no big difference. Perhaps a little more grip. I practised returnign no-spin-serves long and low and fast with the pips. I had some success...

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2011, 06:31 
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Def-attack wrote:
Tried a few hits today with my not-so-worn D.TecS and there was no big difference. Perhaps a little more grip. I practised returnign no-spin-serves long and low and fast with the pips. I had some success...


That's the best you can do with those serves. Or you can try to attack them.

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2011, 20:20 
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Lorre wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
Tried a few hits today with my not-so-worn D.TecS and there was no big difference. Perhaps a little more grip. I practised returnign no-spin-serves long and low and fast with the pips. I had some success...


That's the best you can do with those serves. Or you can try to attack them.


I was kind of attacking. Just adding some speed to them, and if they had a slight top spin I rolled them. I also tried a sort of flip, the kind of hit Carl Prean used, where you have your hand like when doing a hand shake and your main part of your bat above your hand, moving the top of the bat forward and kind of adding top spin to the ball during the stroke. This way you can hit the ball a little harder even when the ball is low.

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 08:08 
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Like I promised, I would write a "short" review about my experiences with my new bat, a Rakza 7 2.0mm on my forehand and a Grass Dtecs 1.6mm on my backhand. It was a very interesting evening. I had the chance to try my bat against a beginner, a short pip player and an attacking anti player.

First the beginner. A crazy fellow, young, talented as a defender, but the mainstream in my club sais: you will learn to attack. As a consequence this guy will drown in the pool of other and better loopers. He's got a good forehand, but his backhand is bad (he can only flip with it). I started with my forehand to his forehand: I'm left, so I'm outside of the table. That Rakza is a crazy rubber: You go over the first ball, the ball comes back and then you spin it. This ball goes in a high arc, slows down, dips and then speeds up again. You also can block very short with Rakza. Chopping with it is as good as Tenergy 64. If you loop the ball when it's going down, you get a topspin ball but now with a very low arc. Control is excellent, but make sure you feel the ball (I cannot explain it better - maybe brushing). Countertopspin from behind is again high arc, but very high spin and if you want, you can add a lot of sidespin. What was new for me, is that I can brush loop near the table and let the ball land in the opponent backhand corner with sidespin. Vey nasty. You only need to use your wrist and sometimes lower arm to do this. I never could do this with my Tenergy 64 or my Tibhar Bungee. One thing I had problems with was smashing: but when they were on, they just slide through after the ball hits the table. I'm already having problems with smashing during a couple of weeks, so it's probably me. O yeah, the control in the short game near the table is excellent and loaded with spin.

Now the backhand: The guy is not really a spinner, so he just gives the ball a high loop with little spin on it. You can keep this ball low when chopping and let it float. You can add a little backspin to it, but not much. But sometimes he raised the pace and the spin on the ball: I chopped the ball and it never came back (it went in the net). What surprised me was that when attacking/blocking near the table, the control was so much better than with the 1,2mm (like one of my buddies already has said - see one of my previous posts). You can go through the ball and give a very low dead ball, you can chop block and create enough backspin to let the beginner dump it in the net. You can go over the ball and place it where ever you want. You can even block it short (there's no spin on this ball). Again, with all hits: make sure you feel the ball.

I played one set with this beginner and it was 11 - 3. One comment of this player was: when you spun with your Rakza, the ball zigzagged through the air. I know I can do this with my Tenergy64.

Next was an experienced player with short pips on his backhand. He's a near the table chopper, but he can attack. When starting I remembered playing him with the P1-R 1,5mm and he just didn't had any problems with that one, so I was afraid that 0,4mm more rubber beneath my pips would make things easier for him. He has trouble with my Dtecs 1,2mm, but boy... What trouble he had with my Dtecs 1,6mm. We played a match and it was 5 - 0 for me. The Rakza played so controlled and the pips: well, if he topspinned to it to make the point, the ball came back and even with a quick wrist action you can add enough backspin to let him hit it in the net (even with his short pips). I remember two balls when being in the game: one was a reflex when he hit hard to my backhand and I stretched. I was two - three meters behind the table. The ball came back to him in one straight line, he wanted to place the ball just behind the net and the ball just fell of his rubber. I just saw the ball coming off his rubber. I never saw the line the ball went in, but I remember doing this with the 1,2mm. The second one was a chop with my Rakza just behind the net, quite low. He used his pips to spin it and it went straight in the net. His comments after the match were: I played my best in weeks against you, but those balls just come so beautiful (he means he thinks he can hit them) and when I hit them, they go in the net.

My third opponent: very good spin on his backhand. Anti on his forehand and yes, he spins and hits with it (Neoanti). First time I play against this man. First quarter of an hour he just couldn't play me. Then he tried to attack with his anti. He could hold the spins on the table, but man: if he misread the spin (what he did on the second or third ball), bye bye ball. Behind the table or in the net. I was able to add enough spin with Dtechs on his anti topspins to let the next ball die in the net when he wanted to topspin it with his anti. If he wanted to attack my high arc loops from my forehand with his anti, they went in the net due to not enough friction to hold the ball.

So in short: Rakza 7 is a dream rubber and that Grass Dtecs just a shines more than in its 1,2mm version. I'll post again Wednesday. Def-attack and others, I hope this post will not infect you guys again with the EJ virus! :D

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 17:56 
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Thanks Lorre! Sounds very interesting. Ohhhh..... that evil VIRUS :@
A few qustions before I go on and order one myself: How was the thicker DTecS on creating spin against no spin balls?
Was it faster on chops, more difficult to defend against fast poweloops (or smashes)?
Was it more difficult to return spinny serves low (I find DTecS quite sensitive to incomming spin when returning serves that are fast and with lots of side- and backspin)?
Was it much easier to attack with?

Rakza is a very nice rubber. I found a little hard and a little fast for me at this moment, but I might revisit it later.

Will you change your signature?

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 22:04 
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It was better against creating underspin towards no spin balls, but no where near P1-R's ability to do that. I find it better to keep those balls low and let them float. It was also easier to attack them.

It was only a little faster than the 1,2mm sponge. it was easier to defend against smashes and powerloops as long as your technique is evolved enough (probably because you can manipulate the spin more).

Well, again I found it easier to return spinny serves low, problably because of the added manipulation options.

I don't attack a lot with my pips or it is a kind of topspin attack near the table or away from the table. Away from the table it was easier to topspin the ball on a topspin ball. Near the table it was a little harder to do (against no spin and backspin), but you adjust very quickly and then the control is excellent. I didn't get the opportunity to smash the ball, but seeing Joo doing it... It will probably be better in this 1,6mm version. Oh yeah, like in the 1,2mm version, if you topspin the ball and the incoming ball is a no spin or a little topspin, the ball is still empty as hell. If they want to block it, it goes straight into the net. I was afraid the added sponge would eliminate this disruption, but no...

Didn't you use the the soft version of Rakza? I'm using the regular one.

I'll change my signature once I used it against my two usual sparring partners. But I've changed it now already into...

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 22:12 
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Sorry, couldn't fight the Virus. It took about 10 minutes after I read your last post until I emailed Japsko and ordered a thick one myself :). Hopefully I will have it tomorrow so that I can glue it on before my training... Can't wait...

I used Rakza soft. Still it was a little too hard and fast, but I used in max thickness.

Keep us informed about how it works against your normal training partners! I'll write a little review as soon as I can.

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 22:14 
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Ww, what a speedy response. :rofl: That virus can be so hard to resist sometimes... :rofl: I'll looking foreward to your review. :)

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2011, 22:19 
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Lorre wrote:
Ww, what a speedy response. :rofl: That virus can be so hard to resist sometimes... :rofl: I'll looking foreward to your review. :)


I subscribed the topic... I am very bad at resisting, doesn't even try. ButI am still within my "silly season" why it is ok for me to mess around with the material. But not for much longer...

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2011, 06:19 
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First brief hit with the THICK version today. Whoa!!! Started with 30 minutes of practicing with my ordinary set up against my trainer (very experienced, has been using SP on BH and knows how to play defenders). Then I changed rubber and glued the 1,6 mm version on. I started against another not as experienced, and who uses a Cayman with Rakza soft and Anti Power (he hits and attacks with it). He had ssome serious problems with the backspin generated and the wobbling effect was much more obvious. After 20 minutes I went back to my trainer and he tried FH loops against my pips. He placed most of my chops into the net or very high. It was very difficult for him to read the spin since the trajectory is almost the same no matter if there is a no spin chop or a heavy chop. But he also noticed that the thicker version generated a lot moe back spin on chops. He felt it was much more difficult to play against since the back spin on chops was heavier and since there was no help from the trajectory concerning how much spin the ball carries.

I also practiced some returns of low or no spin services. A little more difficult to handle here, but you can push real hard and make it look like the ball carries tons of back spin (but it doesn't). First 5 minutes he placed most of my returns far past the table :).

I just had a brief go with it, but it is even more fun to play with and more difficult - both for me and my opponents. But I did not manage to generate more spin on a no spin ball than with 1,2 mm, but that could be a matter of technique.

Oh, it was much easier to attack with, faster and more inverted-like. But I need to adjust to the different throw, both on attacks and on chops. Hopefully I will find some time for more practice this weekend :)

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2011, 08:26 
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I'm happy you like the thicker version. :) I, in contrary, am having doubts. Not because the rubber is bad, in contrary, but because I'm maybe not up to it technically when it comes to playing games with it. I played one of my regular sparring partners yesterday. In the past I played this guy more often then I do now. He was in his cocky mood and then I know I won't get much enjoyable training. The guy does not use spin at all on his forehand and his backhand is spin based. He's right-handed, I'm a lefty. I started chopping to his forehand and when chopped good, even with his no spin forehand I could manage to get enough spin after a second hit from him (with the P1-R 1,5mm he just could keep hitting). Only the guy loves to annoy people, so instead of hitting the ball to my backhand, he hits it to my body, because I need to make space for a chop then and that makes it difficult to make the chop to be loaded. Sometimes I've got too far from the table and then it was very hard to generate enough spin to stop him full attacking (Don't forget, the guy uses no spin and even in 1,2mm version it is impossible to stop him then). I could get back at the table sometimes by letting the ball float back to the table. At the moment I'm not used to the angle and feeling to do this constantly, but the angle is not very far from the angle in the 1,2mm version.

At the table he couldn't handle my attacks and blocks with my pips.

Attacking with my Rakza went a lot better. He defended and I was attacking. I could use topspin, block and smash all very well, but I'm still having doubts in my attack, so it's inside my head. My attacks were very difficult to stop: blocks were short, my topspin made him defend a lot of balls over the table and when smashing, the ball just flew right through after the bounce and past him.

One thing I noticed was, when the ball comes to your body, you need to chop the ball a little lower in comparison with the 1,2mm version. When having enough space this is nice, because you have a little more time.

But when playing games, trouble started. I know how to play this guy: try to get in his forehand and attack him with my pips and he chokes when he gets the ball back. The first two games were mine. I resurrected in the first set getting back from 6-10 to 15-13. Second set was easy. The third set something happened: some guys decided to chat a little bit, but in my playing area. I lost my concentration and already annoyed by my sparring's attitude, got even more annoyed due to this and it went from 2-0 to 2-4 in sets. Main problems: my chops went high when he played in my body (reason see above) and he just slapped my forehand spin with his forehand to the other side of the table. Also:

(1) I'm not confidently playing;
(2) In one of those lost sets he got his first five points making them in a manner having no clue whatsoever and one edge;
(3) His cocky attitude and starting from lost set 3 even arrogance.

He became very arrogant and I thought to myself: just get arrogant. In no time it was 4-4 again. He was not even concentrated and he had a lot of troubles with the incoming balls. I lost the final set with 11-6, I think. And there was his arrogance again...

So it was no fun last night, except I played that anti player again. He defended with his forehand and I attacked with my forehand. Sometimes my attacks were very smooth, other times (most of the time) I could attack three or four times, but then I missed (mostly over the table, meaning I misread the ball having more spin than it actually had). It was a nice training, though. The Rakza played again very controlled and it is like the ball sticks to your rubber. If I used my backhand, he couldn't chop the ball over the table with his anti.

So, in short:

(1) It was my last training with that guy;
(2) Get confident again;
(3) Adjust to the little technical changes.

Only, I'm having a tournament next week. I'm still in doubt: playing with this setup or with my usual setup.

To be continued...

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