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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2011, 09:31 
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Joo Too
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Ok, like I promised, a review of the red Dtecs 1.6.

Here's the story: when playing with my red Rakza 7 2.0 and my black Dtecs 1.6, I felt that the first one didn't give the amount of kick that I wanted and my black Dtecs was a little too soft for my feeling. Coming from a red Tenergy 64 1.7 and a black Dtecs 1.2, this is not surprising. So I went back to that setup, but it didn't feel good anymore. When I started playing with that setup (a year and a half ago), it fulfilled my needs technically. But my technique advanced and so should my material. So where was I? Oh yes, I went back to my old setup and it didn't feel great. That weekend I was bashed from hell and back at a local tournament here and realised two things: I need to change my setup and I need to change tactics. The latter is being implemented at the moment. But what should my new setup be?

Being frustrated from my tournament experience, I thought to change to short pips and try to learn that game. So the next day at training I played with a black Tenergy 64 1.9 black and a red short pip, TSP superpips chop 1.0. I bought those a couple of months ago to try, but didn't get to it. So they were brandnew. Well, that didn't work. I was able to train against my usual sparring partner and he laughed at my short pips. My forehand wasn't that great either, but I felt that black Tenergy 64 was softer than the red one I used a couple of months before. My mate showed me a simple loopdrive move for my forehand and guess what: my forehand was back. And the feeling of that black Tenergy felt so good. It had the kick I was missing in that Rakza. But what should I get on my backhand?

I started thinking: if that Tenergy is softer than the red one, than the red Dtecs should be a little harder than the black one. So I ordered a red one and put it on my Joo. I tested this setup Monday and today and it was what I was hoping for. I've got the feeling back from my old setup, but this one is more dangerous due to the extra sponge. I've beaten my usual sparring partner with 5-0. Final sets were 11-1 and 11-2. Ok, I applied the tactical changes, but still... He couldn't read the spin that was on the ball (confirming Def-attack's opinion that you can't see the amount of spin by looking at the trajectory of the ball). I killed two defenders just by playing with my pips. Again hard to read the spin.

So what happened? Black Tenergy 64 is softer than the red one and red Dtecs 1.6 is harder than the black one. If I need to state the playing characteristics of the red Dtecs 1.6, then I would put it between the black Dtecs 1.2 and the black Dtecs 1.6 when it comes to variation in lang-range defense. Close to the table it plays a little less controlled than the black Dtecs 1.6, but a lot more controlled than the black Dtecs 1.2. The pips are more flexible and have a little less grip. The sponge is a little harder. This results in a little more reversal (certainly of sidespin) when you don't activate the sponge, and a little less variation options when activating the sponge (e.g. in long-range defense). So in short: you get a little more funkiness in exchange of a little portion of variation capabilities. So if you're ready for the next step after the black Dtecs 1.2, but you're still not a Joo Se Hyuk or a Def-attack, then this setup could be something for you.

So I finally can say :party: : My current setup is...

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2011, 17:50 
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Iron Pips
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Great Lorre! Thanks for reviewing the red version, I never realised that the difference would be that noticable. I think i stick with the black one though. it is difficult, especially to balance that thin line between when it is very slow and very fast. But in a few months i should be feeling as confident with the thick version as I did with 1,2 mm, perhaps een more confient since I can attack much easier with the thick one. I am having another session today, I will focus on chopping slow, soft and medium spinny loops near the table, aimed to my body. I had some problems with those last session, placing them into the net or past the table.

Now Lorre, you need to get someone to film yourself when playing. Also, I am very curious how you have changed your strategies.

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2011, 22:14 
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Joo Too
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Def-attack wrote:
Great Lorre! Thanks for reviewing the red version, I never realised that the difference would be that noticable. I think i stick with the black one though. it is difficult, especially to balance that thin line between when it is very slow and very fast. But in a few months i should be feeling as confident with the thick version as I did with 1,2 mm, perhaps een more confient since I can attack much easier with the thick one. I am having another session today, I will focus on chopping slow, soft and medium spinny loops near the table, aimed to my body. I had some problems with those last session, placing them into the net or past the table.

Now Lorre, you need to get someone to film yourself when playing. Also, I am very curious how you have changed your strategies.


I think you need to make place for those slow, soft and medium spinny loops and when you have contact with the ball, brush them, but brush them longer than with Dtecs 1.2.

Filming myself? I don't know... :oops: When a camera is running, I always think about that camera running. I need to relax then...

Well, I don't have a coach or trainer or someone like that (except lately my sparring partner criticizes me when there's something wrong he notices - which is btw great). So I don't have formal coaching and I need(ed) to learn all things by myself, ie the hard way and by looking at the pro's. I'm a lefty too, so that does not make it easier. When I asked three years ago advice to one of the older choppers here, he said to aim to the backhand and he explained to me how to attack. Now, he's right-handed and his backhand goes naturally to the opponent's backhand. My backhand goes naturally to my opponent's forehand. So I should go for forehand-backhand rallies when I'm in the defense. At that time, I was too unexperienced to realize that, so I went always to the other's backhand. I even was corrected when I went to the other's forehand. I got away with this until my current level, but now I need to re-learn this whole tactic: when I chop, chop to the forehand until the ball is heavy enough to go to their backhand. Don't be afraid of their forehand: your backhand is an equally strong weapon. He also learned me how to attack in the wrong way: this was corrected by another pip player after one year, but then I went back to that old attacking stroke (nobody corrected me) and now I'm back on the right track.

I'm someone who needs to understand how the ball wil behave when I do a stroke or how the play will continue when I place the ball in a certain position. I'm a quick learner, so just practicing for a certain stroke or a certain tactic will give results real quick. But you need someone who points out what you're doing wrong and that's who I'm missing in my current club. Happily lately my current sparring partner has a little knowledge about modern defense too and he dares to say it when something goes wrong. But that's the only one who really understands the style I'm playing. That's the reason I'm not playing competition until the start of next year: to re-learn the bad habits and to learn a couple other small things. That's also a reason why I'm changing club next year: I'm looking for someone who has knowledge of my style and who dares to criticize me when I'm doing something wrong.

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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2011, 23:28 
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Iron Pips
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Lorre, you are right about the brushing. I just need to get rid of any hesitations in my defensive strokes. Ando also, I need to learn not to hold on to my bat too tight. I need to hold my bat with a more loose grip when chopping, but that is dificult when I get forced back a little more suddenly than what is comfortable. Yesterday's practice was better in that aspect. I just need to play more...

I think I have about the same training conditions as you. I have a coach but he never used lp himself and he has never played defensive style. Almost everything about lp and defesive playing I have learned origins from this forum. Greg Letts website helped me a lot when I first decided to try lp, helped me to figure out how lp works. But after that I have practised, filmed myself, analyzed my films, tried dodo it better next session, and so on. And, of course, I had great help from readers of this forum how to enhance my technique.

And that is why you should film yourself, not to put it on youtube, but to look at yourself playing and trying to correct your strokesyourself, since you don't have a proper coach that can do it during training. And also, you can show your films for us, the readers of this forum and we will help you.

You will only mind the camera the first two times you record yourself, than you don't think about it anymore. I have filmed most of my clubmates and distributet films to them over the internet (www.sprend.com is a fine service for this). Most of the find lots of things to correct when they see themselves playing. Some things gets very obvious on film :)

To what side you should chop also has to o with weather or not your opponet is very good at looping from far FH or from the BH-side, or with BH. In the match in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15534 I faced a player that as at least two god defenders in his own team. He is very good at looping with FH against lp from the BH-corner. But when I placed my serves and chops more to his FH side he was not as strong, and I could win a few duellls. He is ranked #706 in Sweden (I am #2569).

By the way, here is the new Swedish ranking, where all registred players are listed. This is the most exciting thing that has happend in swedish TT this year...
http://cupassist.com/pa/ranking_sbtf/ra ... public.php

Another of my opponets that I have filmed (this thread: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13554) is now ranked #483 in Sweden (yes, men and women are ranked together). I belive she is a LOT better now than in that match against me... She is ranked #428 in the world.

Sorry... kind of lost the topic...

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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2011, 06:52 
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Joo Too
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I did it again... :D :D :D I played with my new setup my third tournament and won it. Changing tactics and my new setup complete each other. There's again chemistry between me and my Joo! :lol:

Yes, I also learned the pip basics on the web. You're off course right about the filming: it would make wrong things visible. I'll try it.

I was talking about forehand-backhand as a default option. Off course there are players who's backhand is (more) pip bait.

Where are you standing, Def-attack, on the Swedish ranking?

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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2011, 07:25 
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Lorre wrote:
I did it again... :D :D :D I played with my new setup my third tournament and won it. Changing tactics and my new setup complete each other. There's again chemistry between me and my Joo! :lol:

Yes, I also learned the pip basics on the web. You're off course right about the filming: it would make wrong things visible. I'll try it.

I was talking about forehand-backhand as a default option. Off course there are players who's backhand is (more) pip bait.

Where are you standing, Def-attack, on the Swedish ranking?


I revealed my current standings inside a () :) . I think I could be a little better than my spot at 2569. At least I hope so ;) . But time will tell, the ranking is a very new thing and your starting points still has a great impact on your ranking position. My training partner started with 200 points more than me because he had entered a few competitions (i think) before the ranking system was shipped. He is at #2119. Every single match within a leauge match or a competition will be included when the ranking is re-calculated every month. So if I beat someone with more points than me I will gain points and vice versa. For example, I think Auzcar is ranked around #500.

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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2011, 23:00 
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Joo Too
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
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I'm sorry: I didn't notice the (). I was really tired the night I read it and now I see I also forgot to post a reply on your answer. :oops:

I don't think we have such a system here. Here we work with letters and numbers. The lowest start with NG, then E6, E4, E2 and E0. If you rise then in level, you go to D6, D4, D2 and D0. And so on until you reach B0. If you then rise in level, you go to A22, A21, A20,... until A1 (e.g. Saive has this number). I'm D2. Here's the official site:

http://competitie.vttl.be/

and here's the list of my club:

http://competitie.vttl.be/index.php?menu=6&club_id=276

I am Lorenzo Goossens (D2). These are my results:

http://competitie.vttl.be/index.php?menu=6&sel=15352&result=1&category=1

The funny part is that I only won one match against other D2's, but I have (more than) 50% against higher ranked players [some results still are missing]. Due to this I only need one D2 to become D0. D2 is a classification here that talented youngsters get because it gives them a great advantage in tournaments: they are the lowest ranked players in the serie and all they can do is win from equally or higher ranked players. Oh yeah, and I had a terrible August month... 8)
The results of Gullegem are the ones I get when (1) I changed tactics and when (2) I used my current setup. I won that serie (D0-D2), beating Stijn (a youngster) in a very exciting match. This same Stijn beat three of our four best players this week in competition. Tom (the C6 I beat in Rooigem) did the same thing to our best players. Maybe exeggarated, but I feel I'm not far from the level of our best players...

Oh yeah, we also play in another league. Here's the site:

http://www.sporcrea.be/tafeltennis/competitie/index.php?MySession=785db93c54a64503eebd3fcefec11053

I didn't play in that league yet. I'm D0 in that league.


How are you progressing with the DTecs 1.6?
Is it also possible you rose or went down in ranking (I don't think I see your name next to one of the #2569?

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