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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011, 10:59 
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Hi Everyone,

I have two questions, one general and one specific.

The general one: what sort of properties make a blade more compatible with long pips with sponge?

The specific one: Currently, I'm using Nittaku Acoustic + Feint Long II with 1.3mm sponge. I often attack backspin at the top of bounce with LP, I also close to the table block with LP, and I occasionally aggressively push with my LP. Is Feint Long II 1.3mm the most suitable LP for my style? Does the Acoustic go well with Feint Long II for this type of play? If not, what types of blades are suitable? Thanks!

Cheers,
Kevin

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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011, 11:51 
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Feint isn't the best rubber for attacking, but if you like it don't change. You sound like your using an inverted stroke, which typically does not like pimple rubbers. If you start hitting and chop blocking with a thinner sponged rubber Feint will work better for you. But the best hitting long pimples are TSP Curl P-2, RITC 755, Double Fish 1615 and Prasidha Long A.

It sounds like you need the 1615 or Curl P-2, because they chop block and hit very well. 755 isn't very durable for hitting, and 1615 is rather fragile. Long A isn't very accessable, and Curl P-2 works best in OX.

Blades for pimple play are usually stiffer but the Acoustic is a cross between a loopers blade and a hitters blade so it should suffice.

Why ask if the setup is working for you?

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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011, 12:38 
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berkeleydoctor wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I have two questions, one general and one specific.

The general one: what sort of properties make a blade more compatible with long pips with sponge?

The specific one: Currently, I'm using Nittaku Acoustic + Feint Long II with 1.3mm sponge. I often attack backspin at the top of bounce with LP, I also close to the table block with LP, and I occasionally aggressively push with my LP. Is Feint Long II 1.3mm the most suitable LP for my style? Does the Acoustic go well with Feint Long II for this type of play? If not, what types of blades are suitable? Thanks!

Cheers,
Kevin


Hi Kevin, it would serve you well to tell us more about your game. What level do you play at? How well do you control your pips (do you often send them long etc?) What's your FH like and what rubber do you use there? How long have you been playing? Stuff like this.

The Acoustic is probably a little flexy for use with pips generally. A very stiff blade is best. With a sponge as thick as you are using though, I don't think it will be as important. Thicker sponge changes the way pips play. I have played plenty of people using Feint LII with sponge and most attack with it fine. It seems to be the pip of choice of people who only know Butterfly as a table tennis brand when they decide to go to pips. I don't know if you fall into this category.

By the sounds of your style I don't think your setup is ideal. While your blade is very high quality, there is much better for you. The Septear would be one in the Nittaku range immediately coming to mind. A little more info on your FH would be useful before going too far along the blade line though.

And there are better pip choices available. To begin with though, I would go for a thinner sponge. 0.6mm is ideal. 755 would be a good pip for you to try as it does attack well. Of course I can't let anyone like you not consider my beloved Pogo either. It does most things well in Ox, I have a sheet with 0.6 sponge but have yet to use it. Sponge tends to add some power to a pip, but reduce/dull the pips best properties. I used to always have some sponge under my pips, but found that you get the pips best crisp feel and control by having no sponge. This does however reduce the power, and sometimes a little extra power can be a good thing in attack. Its a trade-off!

Other pips that you may like: Giant Dragon Talon, DHS C8, Double Fish 1615, Meteor 6512, Hallmark Phoenix.

Look forward to hearing more about your game.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2011, 04:39 
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ilikepie wrote:
Feint isn't the best rubber for attacking, but if you like it don't change. You sound like your using an inverted stroke, which typically does not like pimple rubbers. If you start hitting and chop blocking with a thinner sponged rubber Feint will work better for you. But the best hitting long pimples are TSP Curl P-2, RITC 755, Double Fish 1615 and Prasidha Long A.

It sounds like you need the 1615 or Curl P-2, because they chop block and hit very well. 755 isn't very durable for hitting, and 1615 is rather fragile. Long A isn't very accessable, and Curl P-2 works best in OX.

Blades for pimple play are usually stiffer but the Acoustic is a cross between a loopers blade and a hitters blade so it should suffice.

Why ask if the setup is working for you?


Haha that's a good question. Some aspects have been working really well, but others haven't. I've been attacking with LP and blocking fine. But I have trouble pushing backspin/no spin without popping the ball up or giving the opponent an easy ball. I also have trouble receiving fast, long, side spin serves because I tend to just give them an easy ball to attack.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2011, 04:52 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
berkeleydoctor wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I have two questions, one general and one specific.

The general one: what sort of properties make a blade more compatible with long pips with sponge?

The specific one: Currently, I'm using Nittaku Acoustic + Feint Long II with 1.3mm sponge. I often attack backspin at the top of bounce with LP, I also close to the table block with LP, and I occasionally aggressively push with my LP. Is Feint Long II 1.3mm the most suitable LP for my style? Does the Acoustic go well with Feint Long II for this type of play? If not, what types of blades are suitable? Thanks!

Cheers,
Kevin


Hi Kevin, it would serve you well to tell us more about your game. What level do you play at? How well do you control your pips (do you often send them long etc?) What's your FH like and what rubber do you use there? How long have you been playing? Stuff like this.

The Acoustic is probably a little flexy for use with pips generally. A very stiff blade is best. With a sponge as thick as you are using though, I don't think it will be as important. Thicker sponge changes the way pips play. I have played plenty of people using Feint LII with sponge and most attack with it fine. It seems to be the pip of choice of people who only know Butterfly as a table tennis brand when they decide to go to pips. I don't know if you fall into this category.

By the sounds of your style I don't think your setup is ideal. While your blade is very high quality, there is much better for you. The Septear would be one in the Nittaku range immediately coming to mind. A little more info on your FH would be useful before going too far along the blade line though.

And there are better pip choices available. To begin with though, I would go for a thinner sponge. 0.6mm is ideal. 755 would be a good pip for you to try as it does attack well. Of course I can't let anyone like you not consider my beloved Pogo either. It does most things well in Ox, I have a sheet with 0.6 sponge but have yet to use it. Sponge tends to add some power to a pip, but reduce/dull the pips best properties. I used to always have some sponge under my pips, but found that you get the pips best crisp feel and control by having no sponge. This does however reduce the power, and sometimes a little extra power can be a good thing in attack. Its a trade-off!

Other pips that you may like: Giant Dragon Talon, DHS C8, Double Fish 1615, Meteor 6512, Hallmark Phoenix.

Look forward to hearing more about your game.


I used to play double sided inverted looper (USATT ~1400), but I just switched to LP BH because I tried my friend's LP, and it makes the games so much more fun! So I've been trying to adjust to LP.

On my FH, I play with DHS Neo H3 2.2mm. I loop a lot on the FH. I have really tricky serves, or so people say, so that sets me up for a loop. I also use my LP to set up my loop and to change up the speed of the game. On my LP, I usually try and push deep and fast to the BH, so the opponent will slow loop it or make a weak loop, so I step around and then counter-loop. The problem is I've been playing a person who is a great BH looper, so I cant push that deep long to his BH because he just rips those. So I've been trying to push it short, but it just always pops up.

I actually bought a sheet of Palio ck531a OX from nathanso, but I definitely messed up that sheet when I put rubber cement on it because it domed like crazy, it was so hard to put on the blade! He recommended a glue sheet, which I definitely should have taken his advice. When I was playing with the palio, I felt like I had lost a lot of control, this made me wary of OX pips, but I'm not sure if it was because of the pips or the way I glued it.

Nathanso did have some Pogo's that he's getting rid of. I might give that a try. But if ya'll have any suggestions on how to push without popping it up, I'd sure appreciate it!

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2011, 04:58 
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btw, I also have the following blades, but i'm not sure if they are suitable for LP play:

- Avalox BT 555
- Butterfly Cofferlait
- Donic Dotec Waldner AR

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2011, 06:16 
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Give D.Techs or Talon a try.

Feint lll is a fantastic but pure choppping rubber.

Cheers
Geddk


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2011, 07:04 
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You can push with confidence with red ox pogo! ;)

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2011, 07:13 
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It sounds like your pretty accomplished in what you want to do. Mainly, I pick up that you want to use the LP for a disturbing game close to the table, along with some pick hitting.

For the fast no spin balls to the backhand, I wouldn't have any problem with those if I can get to the ball, because I can sideswipe or chop the ball if its too low to be sideswiped.

Usually you don't push backspin with LP, even in OX unless its super spinny like P1-r. You just can't keep it low enough with enough spin so the opponent won't kill it. heres what I do : I either sideswipe it, or I lift/roll it which creates a light topspin ball. Or if you know how, you can punch the ball back which gives a lot of wobble with the right pips. I use C 8 OX, and I can do anything with it. It can attack relatively effectively off the bounce, it has very high reversal, it slows the ball down to a fair extent on hand hold blocks and its pretty insensitive to spin. If you get it with some sponge, I think it should fit your game well.

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PostPosted: 10 Oct 2011, 03:55 
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ilikepie wrote:
It sounds like your pretty accomplished in what you want to do. Mainly, I pick up that you want to use the LP for a disturbing game close to the table, along with some pick hitting.

For the fast no spin balls to the backhand, I wouldn't have any problem with those if I can get to the ball, because I can sideswipe or chop the ball if its too low to be sideswiped.

Usually you don't push backspin with LP, even in OX unless its super spinny like P1-r. You just can't keep it low enough with enough spin so the opponent won't kill it. heres what I do : I either sideswipe it, or I lift/roll it which creates a light topspin ball. Or if you know how, you can punch the ball back which gives a lot of wobble with the right pips. I use C 8 OX, and I can do anything with it. It can attack relatively effectively off the bounce, it has very high reversal, it slows the ball down to a fair extent on hand hold blocks and its pretty insensitive to spin. If you get it with some sponge, I think it should fit your game well.


i'll give this a try today when i play! i've yet to develop the instinct to sideswipe, cause i keep relying on pushing which gets me into way too much trouble, thank you for the advice! i'll let ya'll know how it goes

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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2011, 03:20 
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You can push backspin with Feint Long III but it is a poor attacking rubber especially on my Giant Dragon Kris blade (its on the defensive side and it's uber slow)!

I think you need to figure out how you win points off your backhand. Read the treatise on pips out rubber under the general equipment section. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16800

If you want to block and hit close to the table and use disruption then rubbers Like Dtecs, GD Talon, and Pogo are great rubbers. If you want to fall off the table, chop, and win points by putting people into the net then Curl PR-1 and Feint Long 3 are the premier rubbers for doing this.

Also analyze yourself honesty. Do you have the speed and strokes to fall of the table and be a deep chopper? If not - your choice is kinda made for you isn't it? If your not there, are you willing to work on yourself besides table tennis-this means running to gain some stamina and speed. Age is a factor with this as well. For me, I can not really play the deep chopping game I once could.

Even investigate if short or medium pips are an option if you want to do more counter driving and flat hitting, rather than blocking.

Finally, unless your are wealthy, as your find your table tennis "self "-there are cheaper brands than Butterfly or even TSP to experiment with.

Ian

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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2011, 03:51 
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I think balsa blade can help a lot with long pips, or any kind of pips !

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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2011, 03:35 
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Melarimsa wrote:
I think balsa blade can help a lot with long pips, or any kind of pips !



Aye, as long as your have the right blade for what you want to do....

Ian

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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2011, 07:46 
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And if you are going to use a Butterfly Feint rubber for LP attack, I certainly would use FL2 over FL3, and F-soft over FL2. As far as Feint-AG goes-$62.00 usd for this dog-does anyone even use this over priced rubber? You can get Dtecs for $42.00 and GD Talon for $25.00-you make the call....

Ian

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