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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2013, 03:27 
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How big is the speed difference between the 0.5 and 1.0 mm sponge of FL III ?
I an thinking about trying it out on Joo See hyuk and I am wondering if the "blade - wood" will come too much into play if i am am using the thin sponge, since the blade is rather hard.
Does anybody have experience with FL 3 on Joo See Hyuk ?
I found it rater slow on Defplay Senso - so therefore i thought i might be able to control it on the JSH.

Soren

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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2014, 16:05 
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What was in the sponge hardness Feint Long? Similar Feint Long II?


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2014, 23:30 
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Tenergy05fx wrote:
How big is the speed difference between the 0.5 and 1.0 mm sponge of FL III ?
I an thinking about trying it out on Joo See hyuk and I am wondering if the "blade - wood" will come too much into play if i am am using the thin sponge, since the blade is rather hard.
Does anybody have experience with FL 3 on Joo See Hyuk ?
I found it rater slow on Defplay Senso - so therefore i thought i might be able to control it on the JSH.

Soren


I played with 0,5 and 1,3, each one session. You can compare the 0,5mm version with a 0,5mm P1-R, but not as effective. The 1,3 was easy to control, very slow and you really need to bend the pips in order to create spin. Totally different from the P1-R.

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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2014, 01:59 
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isean wrote:
What was in the sponge hardness Feint Long?


BTY says its 25*. I will tell you that is butter soft. I will describe it as a marshmallow softness :)


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2014, 08:42 
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But this old Feint Long, not Feint Soft.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2014, 15:03 
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feint soft is 1.5 mm sponge. feint long 3 is different in topsheet and sponge.

It really does have a mega soft sponge... similar to curl p4 but maybe even softer than the p4. They are similar sheets but p4 had slightly more bite to me.

Maybe on a joo se hyuk the 0.5 sponge may allow for the sponge to bottom out more leading to a different effect.
I can't really imagine a long pip to me more inverted like and I only tried the 0.5 sponge...

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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2014, 20:02 
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I tried 1.1 and 0.5 on Defplay,the thicker sponge is bouncier and harder to control with less feedback and I didn`t feel any benefit over the thinner sponge on this blade,might be different on the Joo blade and different for you though

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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2014, 10:37 
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I currently use FL3 in 0.5mm on my Defplay. I also bought 1.3mm recently but didn't see much advantage over the thinner sponge. I have played with 0.5mm for a while now, so I may just be very accustomed to it now. If I'd started with the thicker sponge, it's very likely I would have preferred it due to familiarity. For the time being, I've decided to stick with the thinner sponge, but I am intrigued with TSP P4 and how it may differ from FL3. I would like to compare the two side by side on my pair of Defplays. Hopefully I'll get the chance soon.

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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2014, 11:14 
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p4 in 0.5 plays very well on the defplay. I just am not skilled enough to chop vs against the players who hit mega hard loop drives. The amount of spin wasn't the problem... I was the problem.

Strangely p1r was easier for me, but I started with octopus then p1r 0.5 was the second lp I ever used.

Otherwise p4 for me was very very easy to use. The ability to push/chop vs backspin was what made it great for me. Not too much deception but it was good.

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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2014, 17:35 
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Feint soft is really soft and I am using it on my forehand with lots of control but you have to put it on medium hard blade


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2014, 13:36 
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pipsmaster wrote:
Feint soft is really soft and I am using it on my forehand with lots of control but you have to put it on medium hard blade


That's my next experiment!

For the last 5 years I've been using ox...now I'm really into this sponge LP thing for FH and BH...got a new set up my BBC All Round Big Chopper with 837 1.0 and 1.5 Red 804 from OOAK Store... really cool how the Red sheet went from tack to hard plastic-like surface by working it in... excellent control rubber for FH for low spin and low reversal...but its the pushblocking with the sponge lp...you can push and block like ox style but for faster shots be ready to close block ...however you can hit a counter-hit or loop it as needed to totally put the fear of god into the other guy...with ox lp you play mostly defensive and passive but the sponge allows some attacks that are eay to perform and may not be too risky...btw I have a BBC small chopper too (thanks Charlie from Blades By Charlie!) with 1.9 flextra and 1,5 feint soft as second experiment...the thicker sponge absorbs the vibes that I felt along the custom handle which is beautiful...I think Charlies handles are SUPERB and I thank him for his extra gift!!! Both his blades are EXCELLENT and too good for me... get one while you can its a steal!!!

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2024, 01:13 
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Hello everyone.

I will write a longer post, so please bear with me. I have been struggling for a long time with LP rubbers that have no friction, so i decided to try Feint II and Feint III. I have read quite a bit about them, so somehow the choice fell on them. If you have any other suggestions, feel free to propose them.

The task for the LP rubber would be to generate underspin when pushing, both close to the table and a bit further away. Ideally, it should also be able to return incoming underspin with underspin, meaning it can change the incoming spin. The balls should be faster towards the opponent, and it should also be possible to produce a no-spin ball with a slight modification in movement. Additionally, my wrist position should be similar to when playing with a smooth rubber, not vertical as with frictionless LP rubbers. The movement should be able to be short (just the wrist), but also a strong swing resulting in a tricky ball with stronger or weaker underspin. I am not interested in playing far from the table, nor do i know how to play that way. So, no more than 2 meters from the table. I have no problem reading incoming spins, as I have played with smooth rubbers for a long time.

From what I have read, Feint 2 is slightly less grippy than Feint 3. I don’t mind buying both rubbers and trying to learn this. I am just unsure about which sponge thickness to choose. I am torn between 0.5 and 1.1 mm. I don't know how each sponge will behave close to the table for this kind of stroke and how each thickness will perform on a softer blade with vibrations versus a stiff blade without vibrations. I don’t really like vibrations; I prefer stiff blades.

The blades I have are: Yasaka Guardian, Andro Kinetic OFF+, Primorac Carbon off+, Dr. N Matador. The Andro Kinetic Record OFF+ has the most vibrations, but they are minimal. On the FH side, i play with Tenergy 05 max and have no problems playing with it on any of these blades. I can safely say that my strong FH spin is actually my main weapon for winning points, but unfortunately, my spin on the BH side is very weak. I usually perform a successful underspin with very strong rotation using a smooth rubber, but it is very easy for the opponent to read and the ball travels slowly. So, I basically need an "attack" underspin from the BH side, at the table or a bit further away, to confuse the opponent a bit and easily set up my FH spin.

From LP rubbers, i have tried Grass DtecS OX, Dr. N Trouble Maker OX, Spinlord Dornenglanz OX, SauerTr Helfire OX, Btf Feint OX .. and it was always the same problem: when I received an empty ball to my BH side, I couldn't generate any underspin, the balls would go empty towards the opponent, and he would easily finish the point. I play 80% of the time against opponents who know how to play against LP rubbers very well, so after a few sets, they simply pressure me with empty balls to the BH side and i am helpless :). Reversing the rubber doesn't mean anything to me, as I could never learn how to block properly that way. It's important to me that the LP rubber can sometimes reliably attack a high ball near the net. Unfortunately, I don't know how to twiddle the racket.

So, I would like to know how Feint II and Feint III behave for such a stroke on a stiff blade, with a 0.5mm sponge, and how they behave with a 1.1mm sponge?

I will try to show in some videos what I need the LP rubber to do ... I am far from these players I am linking, but at least to show how I would like to try to play. In each link, the first 5-10-15 seconds from the start of the video is relevant for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgboCO1bczg&t=906s
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiP62KBU980&t=327s
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=219
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=246
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=340
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=457

....

Thnaks

... Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to make the video clips immediately visible in the forum post. As far as I understand, this is only possible when linking the entire video from YouTube, but I can't do it when linking from a different starting point. I kindly ask the moderators to correct this in my post if possible. Thank you once again.

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Tenergy 05
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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2024, 02:41 
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lpmaster wrote:
Hello everyone.

I will write a longer post, so please bear with me. I have been struggling for a long time with LP rubbers that have no friction, so i decided to try Feint II and Feint III. I have read quite a bit about them, so somehow the choice fell on them. If you have any other suggestions, feel free to propose them.

The task for the LP rubber would be to generate underspin when pushing, both close to the table and a bit further away. Ideally, it should also be able to return incoming underspin with underspin, meaning it can change the incoming spin. The balls should be faster towards the opponent, and it should also be possible to produce a no-spin ball with a slight modification in movement. Additionally, my wrist position should be similar to when playing with a smooth rubber, not vertical as with frictionless LP rubbers. The movement should be able to be short (just the wrist), but also a strong swing resulting in a tricky ball with stronger or weaker underspin. I am not interested in playing far from the table, nor do i know how to play that way. So, no more than 2 meters from the table. I have no problem reading incoming spins, as I have played with smooth rubbers for a long time.

From what I have read, Feint 2 is slightly less grippy than Feint 3. I don’t mind buying both rubbers and trying to learn this. I am just unsure about which sponge thickness to choose. I am torn between 0.5 and 1.1 mm. I don't know how each sponge will behave close to the table for this kind of stroke and how each thickness will perform on a softer blade with vibrations versus a stiff blade without vibrations. I don’t really like vibrations; I prefer stiff blades.

The blades I have are: Yasaka Guardian, Andro Kinetic OFF+, Primorac Carbon off+, Dr. N Matador. The Andro Kinetic Record OFF+ has the most vibrations, but they are minimal. On the FH side, i play with Tenergy 05 max and have no problems playing with it on any of these blades. I can safely say that my strong FH spin is actually my main weapon for winning points, but unfortunately, my spin on the BH side is very weak. I usually perform a successful underspin with very strong rotation using a smooth rubber, but it is very easy for the opponent to read and the ball travels slowly. So, I basically need an "attack" underspin from the BH side, at the table or a bit further away, to confuse the opponent a bit and easily set up my FH spin.

From LP rubbers, i have tried Grass DtecS OX, Dr. N Trouble Maker OX, Spinlord Dornenglanz OX, SauerTr Helfire OX, Btf Feint OX .. and it was always the same problem: when I received an empty ball to my BH side, I couldn't generate any underspin, the balls would go empty towards the opponent, and he would easily finish the point. I play 80% of the time against opponents who know how to play against LP rubbers very well, so after a few sets, they simply pressure me with empty balls to the BH side and i am helpless :). Reversing the rubber doesn't mean anything to me, as I could never learn how to block properly that way. It's important to me that the LP rubber can sometimes reliably attack a high ball near the net. Unfortunately, I don't know how to twiddle the racket.

So, I would like to know how Feint II and Feint III behave for such a stroke on a stiff blade, with a 0.5mm sponge, and how they behave with a 1.1mm sponge?

I will try to show in some videos what I need the LP rubber to do ... I am far from these players I am linking, but at least to show how I would like to try to play. In each link, the first 5-10-15 seconds from the start of the video is relevant for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgboCO1bczg&t=906s
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiP62KBU980&t=327s
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=219
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=246
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=340
https://youtu.be/uQFatcCsFTc?t=457

....

Thnaks

... Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to make the video clips immediately visible in the forum post. As far as I understand, this is only possible when linking the entire video from YouTube, but I can't do it when linking from a different starting point. I kindly ask the moderators to correct this in my post if possible. Thank you once again.


The videos you're linking us to, feature LP players who play with Feint II (Panagiotis Gionis) or Feint III (Ruwen Filus). If I understand you correctly, you're looking for a very controlled long pip with a lot of grip by which you can alter the spin together with your opponent. The pips you're mentioning, are good candidates for that, Feint III more so than Feint II.

There is, however, one thing I don't understand. What do you mean with an underspin that goes back faster? A backspin ball will always be (quite) slow. Do you refer to a low no spin ball?

As a pip you can also try Victas P4V (former TSP P4). That pip has a very soft controlled sponge, like the Feint III does, but it has a second gear, unlike the Feint III. That might be useful to generate the faster ball you're talking about.

Sponge thickness: More thickness = more spin you can generate yourself. Both Feint II & III have a 1.3 thickness, PV4 has a 1.5 thickness. Black is also grippier than red.

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2024, 07:45 
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Thank you for the response.

It seems I expressed myself poorly when I wrote that pushed and fast balls on the table should have strong backspin. I meant faster empty balls or balls with very little backspin, but the key is the stroke used to play such fast balls. The hand movement and racket position should resemble as closely as possible the motion used with smooth rubber. We were thinking of the same thing, and you were right to notice this.

With no-grip LP rubbers, it resembles more of a push, so opponents can easily see that it is a completely empty ball. Personally, I simply can't manage it, as I always try to return the incoming backspin by lifting an empty ball because I don't "push" the ball but return it with a hand movement that would create new backspin with smooth rubber.

I have a few more doubts... Will the Feint LP 2 or 3 be faster on a stiff blade if it has a 0.5mm or 1mm sponge? I think the reaction of the blade might be significant if the sponge is thin... resulting in a longer and less controlled bounce compared to rubbers with thicker sponges? I'm asking all this because I have never used LP with a sponge... please forgive me :)

And considering that I have described at least a bit of the way and idea of how I would like to use the LP rubber, which of these two rubbers would you recommend to me and with what sponge thickness?

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Tanergy 05
Grass D.TecS OX

02
Butterfly Primorac Carbon
Tenergy 05
Tenergy 64 1.7


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2024, 21:57 
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lpmaster wrote:
Thank you for the response.

It seems I expressed myself poorly when I wrote that pushed and fast balls on the table should have strong backspin. I meant faster empty balls or balls with very little backspin, but the key is the stroke used to play such fast balls. The hand movement and racket position should resemble as closely as possible the motion used with smooth rubber. We were thinking of the same thing, and you were right to notice this.

With no-grip LP rubbers, it resembles more of a push, so opponents can easily see that it is a completely empty ball. Personally, I simply can't manage it, as I always try to return the incoming backspin by lifting an empty ball because I don't "push" the ball but return it with a hand movement that would create new backspin with smooth rubber.

I have a few more doubts... Will the Feint LP 2 or 3 be faster on a stiff blade if it has a 0.5mm or 1mm sponge? I think the reaction of the blade might be significant if the sponge is thin... resulting in a longer and less controlled bounce compared to rubbers with thicker sponges? I'm asking all this because I have never used LP with a sponge... please forgive me :)

And considering that I have described at least a bit of the way and idea of how I would like to use the LP rubber, which of these two rubbers would you recommend to me and with what sponge thickness?


I've been out of the game for a couple of months, but going by my muscle memory, I think the difference between a spinny slower push and spinless faster push with grippy LP's is the amount of wrist used. The blade should be as horizontal aligned with the table as possible. You should view it this way: the more grip the pip has, the more it will resemble and act like an inverted. The scale from low to high grip is something like this: flanti --> spinless LP --> spinny LP --> spinless MP --> spinny MP --> spinless SP --> spinny SP --> grippy inverted --> tacky inverted . Adding sponge will add grip. More sponge, more grip.

The blade will play a bigger role when having a fast ball coming at you. A push is slow, so the blade will have a smaller role, but it will still do something. My experience playing the Joo blade which is a hard blade is: thinner sponge makes for more direct contact, even on pushes, making it harder to generate your own spin.

I don't know the sponge of Feint II, but I played with Feint III 1.3mm and PV4 1.5mm a couple of training sessions. I'm a defender, however, so I like to be farther away from the table then 2 metres. To be closer to the table, a thinner sponge might work. But the spin on the push will be less. You might want to go with 1.0mm and go from there. If you want to have more spin on your push, go thicker. If you want more control in the two metre area, go thinner. If you're happy, stay with the 1.0mm. Go for one or two controlled high grip LP's (Feint III and/or PV4 e.g.) and compare those two with each other. Initially I'd certainly would go with black because of the grip, but if the black range doesn't suit you, you might want to change to red to see if something in that ranges suits you. Color is another variable that has impact on the grip, be it less than the blade or sponge.

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