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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014, 08:08 
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I used this rubber very briefly, over the course of maybe 2 or 3 days, on blades ranging from the Defplay Senso to the Andro Temper Tech OFF+, so I have a pretty decent idea of the qualities of the rubber, separate from which blade was used.

The look:
Quite a dullish light red in color; not glossy at all, and seemingly fairly grippy tops. The pips are fairly large and widely space.

The feel:
Compared to most Long pips I've used, these were quite stiff, but not so much as to be a rarity in the LP world. I did feel a fair bit of grip when I ran my fingers through it, though as I'll get into later, the reversal wasn't too bad, likely due to the spacing and size of the pips.

The chopping ability:
As most people would probably think, this is not a chopping rubber! Not even a little bit. The stiffness and size of the pips means you have pretty close to zero manipulation ability. Sure, there's a marginal amount of grip on the pips, but because of the rigidity, the ball bounces off before you can add any significant amount of spin with it (unless you do a total full armed rip chop, in which case it would be painfully obvious to your opponent, and still wouldn't create a devastating amount of backspin). Furthermore, again because of the stiffness/hardness of the pips, the ball really bounces off the pips. In other words, they do not dampen the ball. If you want to be an LP chopper, you need the ability to dampen the ball! This all said, if youre an LP blocker who sometimes gets forced away from the table, you can of course manage to eek out a few decent chops away from the table. Any rubber on the face of this earth can do that, LP or SP or Inverted; but it doesn't make it a good chopping rubber.

The blocking ability:
Actually; not terrible. Not the greatest I've used by any means, but its got a nicely low through without being so low you net balls, its got passively decent spin reversal, and is very much a 'stick the paddle out there and let your opponents shot bounce off' type of rubber. That said, the spin reversal is not devastating, but the control is there, which is arguably the most important part of a blockers game. I'd still recommend a number of rubbers over this one for blocking, so I wouldn't bother.

The attack ability:
Ehhh. For aggressive pushing, this works. For actual LP attacking, this is one of the worst I've used. Seeing as the best I've used for an attack stroke have very soft, flexible, grippy pips, its easy to see why this one would not fit the bill. The pips dont bend enough for you to lift balls, they aren't grippy enough to 'catch' the ball and go where you shoot it, and they're so bouncy on hard shots that there's almost no way to get it on the table when hitting any return less than 6 inches over the net.

Final Impressions: not the worst rubber in the world, but far from the best in every department. I wouldn't get it again.


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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2014, 09:03 
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Actually , I do not agree totally on this review. :lol:
Blocking is average , but hitting is very good, I think.
Chopping is also average.

But there can be a rather big difference between a new sheet and a old one.

And this is common for mostly all LP's.
A well-worn LP is the best! For me at least!

I have a old sheet of DG, almost, very smooth all over!
Just bought a new sheet last week, Very grippy indeed.

I think that is why that reviews sometimes can differ from each other.

Happy Christmas

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PostPosted: 25 Dec 2014, 11:52 
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I get good heavy chop with sponge-not what I get from Feint Long 3 but pretty stiff, I also can hit good attacking strokes with it, Ian.

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PostPosted: 25 Dec 2014, 18:24 
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I have only played against players using this rubber and haven't used it myself. I recall that they both used sponge and could attack with it very ably.

Bulldog.

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PostPosted: 25 Dec 2014, 22:38 
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C&F III does have one of the most flexible and soft pips I've ever seen. I played more than two years with the rubber (1mm), so I can tell. I've also have an OX sheet and those pips are also flexible (why wouldn't they?).

Although I appreciate your intentions, you shouldn't review rubbers you've only used shortly, especially when used on different blades and especially when the review is about a rubber you remembered months/years ago. How can you tell if it's the quality of the rubber, the blade or the combination of both? It'll confuse people who want to try the rubber and are looking for reviews.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2014, 19:20 
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Thanks for your feedback, everyone. I respectfully disagree with the people that found Cloud & Fog III's pips 'flexible' or 'good for attacking'. I can definitively state that the pips are very firm, as compared to almost every chopping/attacking LP rubber I've ever tried (Chopping: Feint long III, feint long II, P1r, P4; Attacking: KTL Stranger, 755, etc) or even many of the blocking rubbers I've tried (D tecs, namely; giant dragon meteorite, giant dragon giant long, Galaxy Neptune, etc). If you want to refute something I've said, I'll welcome you to do so. Please back it up with an equally lengthy review, so that I can understand why you had so much of a different experience than I have had. If you found Cloud & Fog III so good for attacking, you may not have tried many good attacking LPs. I'd be happy to hear a comment from someone who has actually tried a good attacking LP.


Last edited by Beta on 30 Dec 2014, 19:25, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2014, 19:24 
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Lorre wrote:
C&F III does have one of the most flexible and soft pips I've ever seen. I played more than two years with the rubber (1mm), so I can tell. I've also have an OX sheet and those pips are also flexible (why wouldn't they?).

Although I appreciate your intentions, you shouldn't review rubbers you've only used shortly, especially when used on different blades and especially when the review is about a rubber you remembered months/years ago. How can you tell if it's the quality of the rubber, the blade or the combination of both? It'll confuse people who want to try the rubber and are looking for reviews.


Firstly, if anyone would prefer that I not review rubbers that I have used and evaluated, then let them say so, and I will stop spending so much time typing out my experiences to the forum.

To be frank, it does not take me more than 2 or 3 days to determine the softness/flexibility of a pimpled rubber. I'm not saying I've mastered every shot with it; but as compared to the many, many LP rubbers I've tried, the Cloud & Fog III is certainly not among the softest/most flexible. I'd appreciate it if you could point me toward some actual stiff LP's you've used, so I can understand why you feel that I did not review this LP properly.

To address your comment about 'how can I tell?'. Knowing the blades I have as well as I do, having used many rubbers on every one of them, I can factor in the qualities of the blade when I feel out the properties of a rubber. Not to mention, I tried it on multiple blades, so I was able to isolate the properties of the rubber pretty well, disregarding the input of the blade's characteristics.

I suggest you try a pip like 755, KTL stranger, Sanwei Code, or honestly even P1r, p4, or Feint III (the last 3 being chopping rubbers) if you want to see what a good attacking LP feels like.

This all said, I mean no disrespect to you or anyone who disagrees. This was my honest opinion, and perhaps more experienced people than me will have better things to say. :)


Last edited by Beta on 30 Dec 2014, 20:25, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2014, 19:27 
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Bulldog wrote:
I have only played against players using this rubber and haven't used it myself. I recall that they both used sponge and could attack with it very ably.

Bulldog.


ian demagi wrote:
I get good heavy chop with sponge-not what I get from Feint Long 3 but pretty stiff, I also can hit good attacking strokes with it, Ian.


Guys, please keep in mind that I am not reviewing the ordinarily sold 1.0mm sponge version. Your experiences with these rubbers are most definitely attributed to the sponge underneath, not to the properties of the pips. I make no claim that this rubber does not attack well with 1.0mm sponge; I haven't experienced that. But my experiences with the OX version have been backed up fairly consistently by most of the LP players I know (including the one that gave the sheet to me).


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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2014, 20:00 
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I try not to make lengthy posts if I can avoid it. I was trying to point out that the players who used the rubber against me were doing so with sponge rather than ox. I think this may have made a difference.

What does attack mean anyway?!! I played a guy recently who attacked well with Curl p1r in the sense that he could flick, counter and drive with it. When I am playing well with DTecS I can punch and fast push viciously against backspin but I can't flick, roll, drive or counter very well at all.

One must accept that one's opinion about the qualities or deficiencies of any particular rubber is likely to be very subjective. It is after all an opinion. The only way one can tell whether a rubber suits one's game is to try oneself! Even then it is possible to try a rubber which might be excellent on one blade and poor on another.

Let us all be tolerant, respect the opinions of others and enjoy the forum!

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Last edited by Bulldog on 30 Dec 2014, 20:17, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2014, 20:07 
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Bulldog wrote:
I try not to make lengthy posts if I can avoid it. I was trying to point out that the players who used the rubber against me were doing so with sponge rather than ox. I think this may have made a difference.

What does attack mean anyway?!! I played a guy recently who attacked well with Curl p1r in the sense that he could flick, counter and drive with it. When I am playing well with DTecS I can punch and fast push viciously against backspin but I can't flick, roll, drive or counter very well at all.

One must accept that one's opinion about the qualities or deficiciecies of any particular rubber is likely to be very subjective. It is after all an opinion. The only way one can tell whether a rubber suits one's game is to try oneself! Even then it is possible to try a rubber which might be excellent on one blade and poor on another.

Let us all be tolerant, respect the opinions of others and enjoy the forum!

Bulldog.


Agreed, I should have been more clear!
When I say attacking LP, I mean something that can lift balls better than most LPs, and generally attack more of a variety of opponent's shots better than some other LPs. When I used Dtecs, The shots I hit were harder to return, but the types of shots I could attack were far more limited. You're right in that it's subjective.

Sorry if I came across as defensive, I'm always tolerant of differences in opinion, and am only here to enjoy the input of others on the forum!


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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2014, 22:46 
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Beta wrote:
Firstly, if anyone would prefer that I not review rubbers that I have used and evaluated, then let them say so, and I will stop spending so much time typing out my experiences to the forum.

To be frank, it does not take me more than 2 or 3 days to determine the softness/flexibility of a pimpled rubber. I'm not saying I've mastered every shot with it; but as compared to the many, many LP rubbers I've tried, the Cloud & Fog III is certainly not among the softest/most flexible. I'd appreciate it if you could point me toward some actual stiff LP's you've used, so I can understand why you feel that I did not review this LP properly.

To address your comment about 'how can I tell?'. Knowing the blades I have as well as I do, having used many rubbers on every one of them, I can factor in the qualities of the blade when I feel out the properties of a rubber. Not to mention, I tried it on multiple blades, so I was able to isolate the properties of the rubber pretty well, disregarding the input of the blade's characteristics.

I suggest you try a pip like 755, KTL stranger, Sanwei Code, or honestly even P1r, p4, or Feint III (the last 3 being chopping rubbers) if you want to see what a good attacking LP feels like.

This all said, I mean no disrespect to you or anyone who disagrees. This was my honest opinion, and perhaps more experienced people than me will have better things to say. :)


I've tried a couple stiff LPs: Feint III, P1-R (after a month the pips soften up), Frustration, Piranja TEC, P2. Those pips are stiffer than C&F III. You might have a fake one or one of a different badge, but in all reviews I've read and in all my experiences I've had with it the C&F III has very flexible pips. I even touched my OX sheet a couple of minutes to make sure: they are flexible.

I don't know if you can tell the qualities of both apart in such a short time (2 or 3 days).

I understand what you mean with a good attacking LP: one with enough grip to make a good range of shots. However, these attacks aren't very dangerous. More grip means less dangerous, but means a larger range of shots. However, there is another strand of players who state the opposite is a good attacking LP: less grip, more dangerous but a smaller range of shots. It's just what you mean with "good": a good range of shots or danger in the resulting shot.

Like I said I also don't mean to be disrespectful, but I highly doubt reviews about rubbers only used shortly and in a far away past are very helpful. IMO this one is a good proof: you contradict one of the known qualities of a much reviewed LP (i.e. being flexible) and this might cause confusion for someone who wants to try the LP and is looking for reviews. Don't forget: memory is reconstruction. Mostly a good one, but still reconstruction. Are you sure you don't mix in the qualities of another LP?

You might want to review pips/rubbers you used more extensively. These reviews are certainly helpful.

This is my review of the C&F III: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5197 in my earlier days of the game.

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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2014, 12:13 
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Lorre wrote:
Beta wrote:
Firstly, if anyone would prefer that I not review rubbers that I have used and evaluated, then let them say so, and I will stop spending so much time typing out my experiences to the forum.

To be frank, it does not take me more than 2 or 3 days to determine the softness/flexibility of a pimpled rubber. I'm not saying I've mastered every shot with it; but as compared to the many, many LP rubbers I've tried, the Cloud & Fog III is certainly not among the softest/most flexible. I'd appreciate it if you could point me toward some actual stiff LP's you've used, so I can understand why you feel that I did not review this LP properly.

To address your comment about 'how can I tell?'. Knowing the blades I have as well as I do, having used many rubbers on every one of them, I can factor in the qualities of the blade when I feel out the properties of a rubber. Not to mention, I tried it on multiple blades, so I was able to isolate the properties of the rubber pretty well, disregarding the input of the blade's characteristics.

I suggest you try a pip like 755, KTL stranger, Sanwei Code, or honestly even P1r, p4, or Feint III (the last 3 being chopping rubbers) if you want to see what a good attacking LP feels like.

This all said, I mean no disrespect to you or anyone who disagrees. This was my honest opinion, and perhaps more experienced people than me will have better things to say. :)


I've tried a couple stiff LPs: Feint III, P1-R (after a month the pips soften up), Frustration, Piranja TEC, P2. Those pips are stiffer than C&F III. You might have a fake one or one of a different badge, but in all reviews I've read and in all my experiences I've had with it the C&F III has very flexible pips. I even touched my OX sheet a couple of minutes to make sure: they are flexible.

I don't know if you can tell the qualities of both apart in such a short time (2 or 3 days).

I understand what you mean with a good attacking LP: one with enough grip to make a good range of shots. However, these attacks aren't very dangerous. More grip means less dangerous, but means a larger range of shots. However, there is another strand of players who state the opposite is a good attacking LP: less grip, more dangerous but a smaller range of shots. It's just what you mean with "good": a good range of shots or danger in the resulting shot.

Like I said I also don't mean to be disrespectful, but I highly doubt reviews about rubbers only used shortly and in a far away past are very helpful. IMO this one is a good proof: you contradict one of the known qualities of a much reviewed LP (i.e. being flexible) and this might cause confusion for someone who wants to try the LP and is looking for reviews. Don't forget: memory is reconstruction. Mostly a good one, but still reconstruction. Are you sure you don't mix in the qualities of another LP?

You might want to review pips/rubbers you used more extensively. These reviews are certainly helpful.

This is my review of the C&F III: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5197 in my earlier days of the game.


I had the sheet right in front of me while writing the review, and compared the feel of the pips to many of the other sheets I had right in front of me. I'll leave it at that.


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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2014, 18:27 
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As with most rubbers there will be variations between sheets. I dug up a sheet of cloud & fog 3 and played with it last night. Thick base sheet, large soft widely spaced pips, great reversal/continuation, fantastic for chopping, not so fantastic close to the table, decent braking effect, very good for attacking.

The variations between sheets and blades, the unlimited amount of combinations and playing styles make it very difficult to come a definitive review of any blade or rubber.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2018, 03:56 
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I recently got LP fog and cloud 3..just played 1 day with it..this is my 3rd LP set..don’t want to disturb my existing setup of grass dtecs so put this on a new blade donic senso carbon (controlled blade)..this is perhaps the best LP for hitting..this is with 1 mm sponge so can’t compare with dtecs as i have ox(non sponge)..good thing is that I don’t feel handicapped on attacking..definitely some compromise on deception/reversal ..mainly due to sponge I guess.due to sponge it is slightly better for chopping so far from table is also not bad ..I may continue with this setup specially against better players due to allround abilities and primarily hitting with BH


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2019, 03:48 
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Review of Cloud & Fog III (ox): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLC00Td4iEc

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