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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2019, 11:41 
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FH: 2.0 andro rasanter R47
BH: OX Long pips, grippy
I used to be a chopper w OX then went to sponge. Stopped LP chopping in 2011. Now adding back LP, but looking to attack more with my LP, but close to the table. Not real good at blocking w LP ala pushblocking.
Suggestions to question in the title?
tia

PS now play with fast off blades rather than defensive ones.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2019, 12:42 
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Depends on your pip and preference. Grippy ones like curl p4 and stiga horiztonal can still hit reliably against top spin, even in OX. Ones like d.tecs, even with sponge, are tough to hit against top spin compared to the others.

Then you get middle of the road like feint long 2 or perhaps yasaka 00012

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2019, 21:02 
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The title should end with "CLOSE TO THE TABLE HITTING"

I do have P4 with sponge. It does allow me to hit with it-but you are right a less grippy pip may not hit even with sponge. I do have a strong preference for grippy LP over hard ones with less friction.


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 00:26 
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Ask Tat and Bogeyhunter and get a different perspective.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 01:47 
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With a fast offensive blade, I'd say you'd have to go with OX. Having a little sponge makes hitting easier, but with practice OX is possible, and your defense will be better. Having an offensive blade with sponge, I think that would be too fast, and you would lose too much pips effect. If you're looking for a good place to start, I'd recommend something like Friendship 755. I found Grass D Tec S too fast and grippy to hit reliably well. I'm learning to hit pretty well with Dr. Neubauer Trouble Maker now, it's got grip but is slower than Grass.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 04:12 
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vanjr wrote:
The title should end with "CLOSE TO THE TABLE HITTING"

I do have P4 with sponge. It does allow me to hit with it-but you are right a less grippy pip may not hit even with sponge. I do have a strong preference for grippy LP over hard ones with less friction.


But you have to remember anything that can hit well will loses the majority of its "funk" on the same balls. You'll basically be sending back over dead balls with a bit of pace, maybe slight reversal on some heavy spin shots. You'll also be able to add some top spin with the grippy pips. Watch how Dickie Fleisher played or ni xia (spelling?) or guo jiangshan. You need consistent hits to be successful.

When I play using grippy LP, my opponents don't really have any trouble blocking them once they get the hang of hitting more into the deadballs. At first they net them, but eventually it becomes fairly routine. So you have to rely on placement and speed to get the job done. With the less grippy pips, they make many more mistakes and are hesitant to try attacking them. Downside there is, if you play someone good at handling pips... they can pin you on that side, and there's not much you can do with the pips to stop them.

However, if you plan to hit then I would definitely recommend the grippier variety. Just know that you will not be getting many of the "pip points" with that sort. I've tested and tried tons of them, always with the same result.

Grippy = You must hit and place well, cannot rely on "funk"
Low friction = you must place well, but the "funk/spin changes" wins points more than speed and you cannot reliably hit against top spin

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 09:03 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
vanjr wrote:
The title should end with "CLOSE TO THE TABLE HITTING"

I do have P4 with sponge. It does allow me to hit with it-but you are right a less grippy pip may not hit even with sponge. I do have a strong preference for grippy LP over hard ones with less friction.


But you have to remember anything that can hit well will loses the majority of its "funk" on the same balls. You'll basically be sending back over dead balls with a bit of pace, maybe slight reversal on some heavy spin shots. You'll also be able to add some top spin with the grippy pips. Watch how Dickie Fleisher played or ni xia (spelling?) or guo jiangshan. You need consistent hits to be successful.

When I play using grippy LP, my opponents don't really have any trouble blocking them once they get the hang of hitting more into the deadballs. At first they net them, but eventually it becomes fairly routine. So you have to rely on placement and speed to get the job done. With the less grippy pips, they make many more mistakes and are hesitant to try attacking them. Downside there is, if you play someone good at handling pips... they can pin you on that side, and there's not much you can do with the pips to stop them.

However, if you plan to hit then I would definitely recommend the grippier variety. Just know that you will not be getting many of the "pip points" with that sort. I've tested and tried tons of them, always with the same result.

Grippy = You must hit and place well, cannot rely on "funk"
Low friction = you must place well, but the "funk/spin changes" wins points more than speed and you cannot reliably hit against top spin


I agree. I really need to watch some videos to see LP hitters (Fleisher is the one who comes to mind first). Clubmates have suggested the OX is much funkier. But I am used to grippier pips from my chopping days. My goal is not to win points with my pips. My goals are two fold:
1. Primarily to win points with my FH (which is very aggressive and much more of a weapon than my BH)
2. Secondarily to not get pinned on my BH. I need an aggressive way to not let my opponent get a safe side they can hit to. I plan to twiddle AND have the LP hit to vary things.


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 13:37 
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Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
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vanjr wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
vanjr wrote:
The title should end with "CLOSE TO THE TABLE HITTING"

I do have P4 with sponge. It does allow me to hit with it-but you are right a less grippy pip may not hit even with sponge. I do have a strong preference for grippy LP over hard ones with less friction.


But you have to remember anything that can hit well will loses the majority of its "funk" on the same balls. You'll basically be sending back over dead balls with a bit of pace, maybe slight reversal on some heavy spin shots. You'll also be able to add some top spin with the grippy pips. Watch how Dickie Fleisher played or ni xia (spelling?) or guo jiangshan. You need consistent hits to be successful.

When I play using grippy LP, my opponents don't really have any trouble blocking them once they get the hang of hitting more into the deadballs. At first they net them, but eventually it becomes fairly routine. So you have to rely on placement and speed to get the job done. With the less grippy pips, they make many more mistakes and are hesitant to try attacking them. Downside there is, if you play someone good at handling pips... they can pin you on that side, and there's not much you can do with the pips to stop them.

However, if you plan to hit then I would definitely recommend the grippier variety. Just know that you will not be getting many of the "pip points" with that sort. I've tested and tried tons of them, always with the same result.

Grippy = You must hit and place well, cannot rely on "funk"
Low friction = you must place well, but the "funk/spin changes" wins points more than speed and you cannot reliably hit against top spin


I agree. I really need to watch some videos to see LP hitters (Fleisher is the one who comes to mind first). Clubmates have suggested the OX is much funkier. But I am used to grippier pips from my chopping days. My goal is not to win points with my pips. My goals are two fold:
1. Primarily to win points with my FH (which is very aggressive and much more of a weapon than my BH)
2. Secondarily to not get pinned on my BH. I need an aggressive way to not let my opponent get a safe side they can hit to. I plan to twiddle AND have the LP hit to vary things.


In that case, I'd stick with a lower friction pip. Depending on what level you're at, you can generally force returns to your FH using your pips. Just block/push down the line to their forehand and prepare for it going cross court or side stepping to your BH line and doing a FH loop.

I think the lower friction pips are easier to block with and more confusing for the other guy... so if you don't plan on actually attacking with them often, there's no real need to get the grippy variety since you're giving up some of the safety. Especially if you're going to twiddle! You could block once with the pips, anticipate a kind of weak return back to your pips, do the twiddle and send over a winner.

The "weirder" pips usually receive more pop ups since the spin is more varied. With grippy pips, they can be dialed in... at which point it's up to you and your skill if you can create a pop up with consistent hits and such. From my experience, if you want to finish with your FH and don't plan on using the pip hit as your preferred weapon... you're better off with the slicker OX LP, as those tend to generate more FH kill opportunities.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 22:37 
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FH: 2.0 andro rasanter R47
BH: OX Long pips, grippy
Here are some DF videos. If my memory is correct (and it is often not!) I think he uses LP on both sides and I think has sponge on both sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03rOo3DWfuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebr2P-dntLM&t=117s

Observations-
1. I am interested in BH LP hitting-He hits extensively with his FH and I do not think hardly ever with his BH. In fact, he almost only chops with his BH and that is rare. I am not sure why players do are not able to get him to use his BH
2. He has a very non-standard FH grip with the index finger extended along the blade.

I am still looking for someone who does a BH hit with LP.


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2019, 23:57 
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vanjr wrote:
Here are some DF videos. If my memory is correct (and it is often not!) I think he uses LP on both sides and I think has sponge on both sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03rOo3DWfuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebr2P-dntLM&t=117s

Observations-
1. I am interested in BH LP hitting-He hits extensively with his FH and I do not think hardly ever with his BH. In fact, he almost only chops with his BH and that is rare. I am not sure why players do are not able to get him to use his BH
2. He has a very non-standard FH grip with the index finger extended along the blade.

I am still looking for someone who does a BH hit with LP.


I think DF plays with OX on the 4h.

Most long pips players put them on their bh because it is weak. There are some long pips test videos at North Little Rock Table Tennis Group webpage on Facebook in which the tester hits using the long pips bh.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2019, 01:13 
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DF uses Curl P2 OX on the forehand and I believe Yasaka Mark V 1.0 on the backhand.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2019, 06:42 
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vanjr wrote:
Here are some DF videos. If my memory is correct (and it is often not!) I think he uses LP on both sides and I think has sponge on both sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03rOo3DWfuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebr2P-dntLM&t=117s

Observations-
1. I am interested in BH LP hitting-He hits extensively with his FH and I do not think hardly ever with his BH. In fact, he almost only chops with his BH and that is rare. I am not sure why players do are not able to get him to use his BH
2. He has a very non-standard FH grip with the index finger extended along the blade.

I am still looking for someone who does a BH hit with LP.


Guo jiangshan is the best shakehand bh lp hitter I know of. She actually does hit with her pips on most shots or haruna f. But she blocks a lot more I think

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2019, 00:16 
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FH: 2.0 andro rasanter R47
BH: OX Long pips, grippy
I did note that DF was using an "outside in" stroke on his FH attack. I am going to work on this stroke with both FH and BH on a robot.

More LP who hit w BH (posting for my own benefit to be able to study their stroke technique and also tactics):
Galia Dvorak-shakehand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyG8hChzJbc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOsWvHNoPno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOLJuUuZHcQ

Jiangshan Guo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSkhvTyHx_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMMo9bhVI5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSkhvTyHx_k


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2019, 01:03 
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Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
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Having played with them, I think when your sponge gets that thick with grippy long pips... there's not much difference from say, a medium pip or low grip SP. He Zhoujia for example uses the feint soft on some really thick sponge, and she plays basically the same as someone like mima ito smacking away at the ball. Probably with slightly less speed and slightly more dead ball effect.

Some times I play people while using thick LP and they don't even realize I've been hitting LP against them... because there is no weird effect, other than a dead ball, which short/medium produce well enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBomelBMPC0

Zhou Xintong
Megan Phillips (uses feint long 2 with some sponge) https://youtu.be/NvWW-MGMWcY

long pip hitter/blocker - https://youtu.be/zcvERPqrOkY

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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2019, 02:51 
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FH: 2.0 andro rasanter R47
BH: OX Long pips, grippy
Dvork and Guo almost look like SP players.

When I mean sponge I mean 0.5 to 1.0, not anything 1.5 or so. I want to hit some, not primarily. The main thing is I want the ball on the table...


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