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Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32961		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Japsican [ 10 May 2018, 00:21 ]
Post subject:  Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
Hey all, now that I'm slowly but surely migrating back toward LP chopping, I thought since I'm all out of sorts anyway, it would be safe to try a new pip, because.... why not.

The one pip I have not tried extensively is sponged Dtecs. I've hit with it, I've played it in OX, but never chopped regularly played with it for any decent length of time.

I think 0.5 would be essentially like OX. But what about 0.9 and 1.2? And more importantly, how is it with the NEW ball?

I have really given up the idea that one must add a ton of backspin to the ball, but really it's more about staying low, long, and placement. Spin isn't as important. Manipulating is important to some degree, but at my level I think safety and consistency is best.

I go back and forth between P-1R 0.5 and DG quite a bit. DG is the most dangerous I've used, but I do admit to missing sponge when chopping, and it is safer against sidespin and better in the serve return. P-1R of course chops very well and manipulates more, and I feel is a bit safer control-wise when chopping at distance. DG, provided the looper gives you a lot of help, DG has the most backspin, P-1R is pretty close too, but again, max backspin isn't as important to me.

My level is probably highest with DG, although it depends on the opponents. DG doesn't come in sponge, nor is it good with sponge (I experimented, too squirrely).
My at-the-table bumps against underspin are a large part of my game, as is my distance chopping.

I haven't seen any recent topics on SPONGED Dtecs, so wondering what the consensus is out there. I see OX players and OX choppers still. Thinking of 0.9mm and 1.2mm. I like the feeling of sponge, the dampening and dwell, but like the reversal of OX. In my head because Dtecs are slippery, I'm thinking the at-the-table bumps will be pretty good even with sponge. And the sponge will give me the dwell feeling I want away from the table.

I definitely know Dtecs are fast as far as pips go, but I've recently been chopping with inverted tensors, so I think I'm okay with that. There is a 2100-2200ish club mate of mine who plays with it on a JSH in 1.2mm. He plays similarly to how I'd play, but I'd likely be putting this on a Defplay or a VKM. He bumps, swipes and chops, but he's more modern d and i'm more classic d.

Thoughts? Reviews?
Author:  haggisv [ 10 May 2018, 09:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
Dtecs with sponge is quite bouncy, which requires active strokes (always brush, don't poke) for the short game, or it will just pop up.

For chopping, it actually generates very high backspin. Even in OX the backspin on chop is very high, with the right technique of course.
Author:  Japsican [ 10 May 2018, 11:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
Thanks haggisv

So, what’s it like when pushing against backspin? Both in the flat pushblock sense and the inverted style horizontal push.

What about bumps?

I went ahead and ordered the sponges 0.9mm. Gotta decide if it should go on the Defplay or VKM.
Author:  haggisv [ 10 May 2018, 12:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
You'll get significantly less reversal with a sponge (vs OX) when pushing against backspin, but you can still it with some reversal. Bumping it works really well, but since it's springy you need to take care to keep it low.

I always found that dtecs is quite sensitive to incoming backspin... it grips quite a bit. This is probably a good thing when chopping as the grip helps create extra spin.

However when blocking topspin the grip is much lower, and the reversal excellent.

Hitting will be much easier when you add a thin sponge... Dtecs OX was always hard to hit with, as the grip is so low.
Author:  skilless_slapper [ 10 May 2018, 12:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
haggisv wrote:
Dtecs with sponge is quite bouncy, which requires active strokes (always brush, don't poke) for the short game, or it will just pop up.

For chopping, it actually generates very high backspin. Even in OX the backspin on chop is very high, with the right technique of course.


From reversal? Or if someone gives you a deadball, can you send it back with a lot of back spin?
Author:  haggisv [ 10 May 2018, 13:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
skilless_slapper wrote:
From reversal? Or if someone gives you a deadball, can you send it back with a lot of back spin?

I was referring to chopping against loops, where you can return very high backspin, due to reversal plus some extra due to the pimples.
Against dead balls you won't be able to create much backspin.
Author:  Bulldog [ 21 May 2018, 01:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
Is it easier to block wth DTecS with 0.5 mm sponge? I want to hit with some long pips and have a balsa blade ready for a try. I used to use Inferno 1mm on a balsa carbon blade before the frictionless ban.
Bulldog
Author:  Roy [ 21 May 2018, 06:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
Bulldog wrote:
Is it easier to block wth DTecS with 0.5 mm sponge? I want to hit with some long pips and have a balsa blade ready for a try. I used to use Inferno 1mm on a balsa carbon blade before the frictionless ban?
Bulldog

I have been playing with Dtecs 0.5 lately and very happy with it. It blocks great and control is very good. Difference compared to ox is better control and ability to sponged type pushes and stuff with open blade (with ox you have to use vertical blade or the ball will pop up). Thicker sponged Dtecs are more affected by the spin and the control is not good in many shots, althought chopping agains loops goes well with thicker sponge.
Author:  Bulldog [ 21 May 2018, 06:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
Sounds like it might be worth a try. I struggle pushing short no spin balls with ox.
Bulldog
Author:  LordCope [ 21 May 2018, 15:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
I've used Dtecs 0.5 for a while, and like it very much. Main differences for me compared to OX (and to what I now use) is it's a bit better for attacking, and a bit more responsive to spin (which is a double-edged sword).

My coach also uses Dtecs 0.5. He's ~top 100 UK atm, without training, and only playing a handful of matches, and was an international player in his prime. He's a modern defender too.

Definitely worth a try! :)
Author:  Roy [ 21 May 2018, 18:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Revisiting Sponged DTecs for chopping
LordCope wrote:
Main differences for me compared to OX (and to what I now use) is it's a bit better for attacking, and a bit more responsive to spin (which is a double-edged sword).

For me the main difference might be that I can take shots like "long pendulum serves to the BH" with open faced "sponged chop" that are easy to keep very tight over the net and speedy enough. With ox I feel that I have to take many shot with vertical head, which is touchy for wrong angle of the head and to avoid net, the return is easily too high and slow (and too short).

So in many situations sponged open face push or chop gives more dwell an better direction than ox vertical push, while the vertical push/roll is still good shot with sponged Dtecs if needed.
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