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 Post subject: Maximum Size Long Pips??
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 01:56 
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Hey all, I am new to the table tennis community.

Recently I have been playing with Mo Wang III OX Super Big Pips and Mo Avalox OX Super Big Pips on my backhand and absolutley love the way I play with them. However, they are not ITTF approved.

I wanted to know what the maximum size, or width, of long pips is ITTF legal? Who makes them? What are my options?

This would be helpful as I will be playing in a tournament here soon. Thanks!


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File comment: MO AVALOX
AVALOX-MO-OX-Super-Big-Pips-No-ITTF-long-pips-out-table-tennis-pingpong-top-font.jpg
AVALOX-MO-OX-Super-Big-Pips-No-ITTF-long-pips-out-table-tennis-pingpong-top-font.jpg [ 156 KiB | Viewed 3217 times ]
File comment: MO WANG III
globe-mo-wang-iii-ox-super-big-pips-no-ittf.jpg
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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 02:46 
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2 mm for the topsheet, backside or long pips, short pips, mid pips, same rule.
4 mm for the topsheet+sponge.

So, long pips in ox, max is 2 mm.
Umpires got a very simple tool to check that. I know it for sure, I am a French umpire and Ittf rules do not vary between countries.

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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 04:06 
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Both are most likely made by Globe. There's an ITTF registered Mo Wang II from Globe and you may check in how far it behaves different to MW III. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if your Avalox and the Mo Wang III are identical.

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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 07:42 
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Papy wrote:
Quote:
2 mm for the topsheet, backside or long pips, short pips, mid pips, same rule.
4 mm for the topsheet+sponge.

So, long pips in ox, max is 2 mm.
Umpires got a very simple tool to check that. I know it for sure, I am a French umpire and Ittf rules do not vary between countries.


I believe that in addition to these requirements there is a minimum aspect ratio involved for the ratio between the height of the pips and the diameter of the pips - without looking at the governing technical regulation it may be 1.1.

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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 08:36 
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Thanks for all the replies and help.

Now that I know what the maximum size can be, does anyone know any brands that make the maximum wide pips?


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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 08:54 
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for a full length long pip, that would be tsp p2


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 06:40 
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I've heard of the aspect ratio rule before, but I'd never heard what the actual ratio was. I always figured you could get around the 2mm pips without sponge by having 0.4mm sponge and 3.6mm long pips and it would be treated as "sandwich rubber".

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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2019, 01:22 
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According to Technical Leaflet T4: Racket Coverings:

http://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... .pdf_0.pdf

B 4: Aspect ratio Aspect ratio, i.e. pimple height (h) / pimple diameter (a), shall not be > 1.10.

So skinny, tall pips might violate this rule, but big, squat pips won't. (One wonders what Yankahardon's favorite Feint Long's measurements were like..)

B 2 states that the permitted diameter for pips out (long, short, medium) is 1.0 to 2.2mm. (There's also a requirement that the distance between the top of the pips be between 1.0 and 2.0mm, and pips can be truncated cone-shaped.) Minimum pip height is 1.0mm. No maximum pip height is mentioned, but the topsheet must not exceed 2.0mm in total thickness. Therefore a maximum 2.2mm diameter pips that violates the aspect ratio rule is impossible, even if the base of the topsheet is ultra-thin. The aspect ratio of such pips can approach 2/2.2 = 0.91 but cannot exceed it if the limits are adhered to. But if you use the minimum diameter pips, the pip height cannot exceed 1.1mm. (You could have rubber physically approaching an aspect ratio of 2 if you use 1.0mm diameter pips.)

Time to measure my sheet of expanded 388D.. :lol: It probably exceeds maximum pips size, maximum pip height, and will be below the minimum pips density (10 pips/cm^2). Same with my sheet of Bald Man Huang rubber..

http://ttnpp.com/store/dawei/451-dawei- ... nge-6.html

Image

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 09:55 
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Musicfreak0 wrote:
I've heard of the aspect ratio rule before, but I'd never heard what the actual ratio was. I always figured you could get around the 2mm pips without sponge by having 0.4mm sponge and 3.6mm long pips and it would be treated as "sandwich rubber".


The top rubber sheet cannot be more than 2mm. top sheet and sponge not exceed 4mm. if you use a 0.5mm sponge, the max thickness would be 2.5mm.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 16:02 
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1) The largest ever pimples should be YINHE Uranus red topsheet.

2) Image

3) Device to measure pips geometry to 0.001 millimeter.
Image

4) TIBHAR D.TECS topsheet was found an outlaw for being overly thick 0.4 +1.8 mm
Attachment:
DTecS_substandard.jpg
DTecS_substandard.jpg [ 84.1 KiB | Viewed 1461 times ]

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 06:22 
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iskandar taib wrote:

Time to measure my sheet of expanded 388D.. :lol: It probably exceeds maximum pips size, maximum pip height, and will be below the minimum pips density (10 pips/cm^2). Same with my sheet of Bald Man Huang rubber..

Iskandar


Nice to know that these pips are legal in your country.
I was curious if you ever have a problem with umpires or opponents hassling you at these tournaments ?

I am not a tournament player but I have been hassled by many players in my local clubs. Some not only refuse to play me but they make sure of spreading rumors that I am using illegal long pips (though I do not play in tournaments or even the local league).

This one player complained to me that I cannot stay on the table (winners stays for 3 or 4 matches depending on waiting players) because I did not beat him since I supposedly used illegal pips. So I told him you can have the table

On another day , another player told me I should leave the table right away and he should not have to play me because my pips are supposedly illegal (he did not even look at my racket, on that day I was just fooling with another supposedly legal pips). I told him this was not a league or tournament but he insisted that the club rules say that only ITTF approved equipment allowed. I did not want to argue and gave up the table.

The funny thing is that all these players are two sided smooth rubber users & 80% of these players boost like crazy. I hear almost daily constant conversations among them as to which boosters are the best and also which ones are undetectable and how to make their own inexpensive concoctions instead of buying expensive ones online. It is funny because they talk as if boosting was perfectly legal. Few players even offered to me their boosters for my smooth rubber side of racket & suggested I should switch to smooth rubber both sides because that is what is accepted & normal rubber. About 75 to 80% players in my club are smooth rubber users. One player told me he may have to talk to club owner (who is very partial to smooth rubber players and opposes all pips anti) to have me banned as a member. I considered moving to other clubs but they are sort of far away and I suspect it is the same situation in other clubs as well.

I am not sure how things are in clubs in your country. Looks like you have no problems.


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