TraditionalTradesman wrote:
dwruck wrote:
Congratulations on your results, they generally sound positive. You are right, against the "best of the best", long pips blocking and chop blocking is going to get absolutely destroyed. There are still some long pips choppers that can play at the highest levels, but you are right, because of the new balls it is more difficult than before.
I think most of us here are "average" players, which is why we talk about the close to the table pips style. We are not trying to compete at the elite levels of the sport (for the most part), but just looking to get to that next level and have fun. I used to be in the USATT 1900 and above range consistently for a couple of years, but then it started slipping a bit. I probably could have stayed in the 1700-1800 range without messing around with my equipment, But I decided to try some other things before I ended up on the Trouble Maker OX. At my age (almost 49), skill level and only able to play 1-2 times per week. using this style and talking about it is very useful.
Charmaine, maybe you over estimated the general level of players here. Yes, there are a number of players that are above 2000 USATT or equivalent. Even at that level, if you are really good, you can be competitive with long pips.
Anyway, just my perspective on why Trouble Maker and other traditional long pips are exciting to talk about here. There are a lot of players with great experience using long pips and I still continue to learn so much.
I tried ABS2 and didn't like it one bit. Maybe I'll have to eventually try the DMS antis. But for now I'll probably stick with the TM, try to get back to my previous level and hope to get over 2000 someday.
As one of those players here who plays a close-to-the-table blocking style with long pips and is (a bit) over 2000, despite not treating my pips in any way, I'll agree with these comments. Yes, you're probably not going to get to a U.S.-2500 level by blocking with long pips (nor are most of us ever going to get that level with double inverted either), but you can get to a level of play where you're competing against and beating some pretty good players. I'd point out that Manika Batra plays close to the table with presumably legal OX pips on an international level, and so does Zhang Guochi (sometimes spelled Guozhi). The thing about these players is that they don't merely block with their pips. They play very aggressively with them. I try to do that as well. The key to my game is to keep opponents constantly off balance.
I was playing this 1800 kid recently, where I made the mistake of being too predictable, something I sometimes have the luxury of doing against players who either don't get pips or don't have shots consistent enough to put pressure on me or avoid mistakes. My whole game against this kid was block against loop, aggressive push against push. At first, he had no idea what to do, and I won the first set 11-1. I won the second set 11-6. Then, by the third set, he'd caught on, and I lost it 14-12. I started playing the fourth set the same way I finished the third, and he jumped out to a 7-2 lead. That's when I caught myself and realized I needed to do something different. I started twiddling, interspersing inverted pushes with my pips pushes, throwing in inverted blocks aimed out wide to the forehand or at his playing elbow and then doing occasional third-ball attacks with my forehand. I gave up just one point the rest of that set and won 11-8.
When I'm playing my best, I'm using my pips to do passive blocks, chop-blocks, chops, rolls, faster topspin attacks against underspin, shovel pushes, aggressive pushes, sideswipes and hits. Sure, I'll make some mistakes, but the variety (usually) results in more errors from my opponent than from me. I intersperse these with twiddling and attacks with my inverted, particularly from the backhand side. The main thing holding me back from advancing to a higher level (other than consistency) is a lack of proper movement and needing to learn better technique with my inverted so that I develop more of a forehand and backhand inverted loop-kill. Sure, if I had more spin reversal on blocks like in the frictionless days, that could get me a few extra points right there, but ultimately, if I'm dialed in, I can spread the ball around the table at awkward angles sufficiently and keep it short and low enough that it's going to be hard for any opponent, except for, maybe, the most elite ones, to keep attacking.
All of this is to say that I think it's not my long pips or my 80% close-to-the-table style that's holding me back. It's my lack of proper inverted technique and my lack of proper movement. These are the main things I'm working on to try to get better.
So, maybe Charmander is right that if you want to compete against some >2500 player (U.S.) with a close-to-the-table blocking style, you'll need to treat your pips or learn to use frictionless anti. What he doesn't mention is that if you want to compete against some >2500 player, you're also going to need incredible talent, athleticism and training that starts when you're young. For all the rest of us, learning to play a close-to-the-table style with regular OX long pips is just fine.
I do agree with you , especially the last paragraph . The technique you are now trying to improve is the one I have already trained to upgrade because I have realised about this fact of using inverted more and not being able to always rely on the pips play . This knowledge has been possible because of the fact that I am ambitious and I don't like losing against high level players by low margins , and my setup is at a clear disadvantage at those higher levels .Hence, I take EVERY opportunity to compete in tournaments where I know I am going to play against iintelligent, athletic ,skilled , high level players, who use super fast blades plus super fast rubbers ,sending super spin ( boosted? , I stopped thinking of this a while ago because that weakens my psychological approach to the game ) .
I believe you are similar to me as far as strategy in the game goes . Only by competing against high level players have I realised that no pip in the world nowadays will help us become better players at those high levels ( even if you train hours and hours on end ) . I want to challenge those guys , I want us, defenders, to push more pressure on those guys, in fact those pip players who adapted great to frictionless antis are already beating them ; that is the route to follow if you like to compete and win .... those who are just happy with a really decent level or just play recreationally, great! pip play is fantastic ,..... I love pips but I will be changing to frictionless anti,.. I am a winner,...I like to compete , I like to train,.... I don't like cheating and as I have said, cheating will never ever benefit tt community, especiallly defenders,... hence, never cheat in your life because that negativity you throw around, does come back to you in the end,sooner or later, maybe not in tt, but in your life, sure.... having said that, I respect everybody's ideas and choices, but let me tell you, there is only one truth, be loving and nice,... cheating is no nice or loving .