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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2019, 01:29 
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gdogg1 wrote:
TM is definitely not living on hype as far as its ability to gain and maintain control/placement with or without sponge.

I've found TM to be nothing special with most blades. I tried it on many blades with no success until people in this thread steered me to my current setup. Now I'm happy, except I just heard that my forehand rubber is being discontinued. It's always something.

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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2019, 02:06 
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Dear all,
Could u please compare Dtecs(0.5) VS TM(0.6) on a scale of 1-10 on
1>Serve Return
2> Pushes
3> Blocks
4> Chops
5> Roll/Hits/TS
6>Serves with pips
Thanks in advance
-regards


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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2019, 03:04 
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I don't know that I could do an accurate 1-10 rating, as things are subjective for each player. But I will give you my impressions of the differences.

1>Serve Return

As Troublemaker is slower and a little easier to control, I would give it the edge in this category. I find that TM is also a little less sensitive to spin than DTec.

2> Pushes

Pushes with TM are more controlled, but I think pushes with Dtec are more dangerous. Here, the speed of the Dtec gives it an edge, I think, because you are able to surprise opponents with sharp pushes that are more difficult to return, as the ball gets into the angles or body more quickly. If I try to be too aggressive with the TM and push a ball hard and deep into a corner, I find it either goes long or isn't as effective.

3> Blocks

Personal preference here, but I think TM is superior for its control and slower speed. In terms of pure spin reversal, Dtec is still king. But to win points, you also need consistency in returning balls, and TM is superior in that respect. To me, neither is great at passive blocking, so I do mostly chop blocking. While TM doesn't have quite the reversal, it still has enough, when combined with the slower speed, to give other players big problems.

4> Chops

Again, much like blocks, I feel like TM is more controllable and consistent. Dtec has probably more reversal. Depends on what you value.

5> Roll/Hits/TS

Attacking with pips is a big part of my game, and probably the primary reason I choose TM over Dtec. I played for a couple of years with Dtec and could never get consistent with hitting with them. They were just too fast and affected by spin to be consistent for me. I was instantly more consistent with TM, and my opponents have a lot of difficulty countering when I hit with TM.

6>Serves with pip

I think that Dtec has a bit of an edge here, as the deep balls can get on top of the opponent faster. They both offer good effect when serving, but for the benefit of the fast deep serves being better at jamming an opponent, I'd give the edge to Dtec.

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PostPosted: 15 Oct 2019, 13:40 
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Thanks dwruck.
It seems TM will defintely need to be tested by me for the good aspects.
Passive reversal and deception of Grass Decs on simple pushes with off bat
does have merit till advanced player level.
Thanks again.


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2019, 00:13 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
gdogg1 wrote:
TM is definitely not living on hype as far as its ability to gain and maintain control/placement with or without sponge.

I've found TM to be nothing special with most blades. I tried it on many blades with no success until people in this thread steered me to my current setup. Now I'm happy, except I just heard that my forehand rubber is being discontinued. It's always something.

Now I just ordered a A. Grubba All+ for comparison. I believe the most comparable blade I have used would be the Donic Cayman which is all Balsa. Also, I do not believe the Black OX TM is any less effective than the Red OX. I know that has been the issue in the past with some LP's.

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2019, 09:19 
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gdogg1 wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
gdogg1 wrote:
TM is definitely not living on hype as far as its ability to gain and maintain control/placement with or without sponge.

I've found TM to be nothing special with most blades. I tried it on many blades with no success until people in this thread steered me to my current setup. Now I'm happy, except I just heard that my forehand rubber is being discontinued. It's always something.

Now I just ordered a A. Grubba All+ for comparison. I believe the most comparable blade I have used would be the Donic Cayman which is all Balsa. Also, I do not believe the Black OX TM is any less effective than the Red OX. I know that has been the issue in the past with some LP's.



I found red TM performed a bit better than black.When new ,the black version had much more friction than the red one . When friction is lost with usage they begin to perform more or less in the same way ,however, in my case ,I always felt better with the red version .Maybe other members have a different opinion? :^) :^)


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2019, 19:42 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
. I tried it on many blades with no success until people in this thread steered me to my current setup. Now I'm happy, except I just heard that my forehand rubber is being discontinued. It's always something.


Whats your current setup ? I'm asking cause I'm in the market for a new complete setup ....

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2019, 19:50 
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I've never owned a D.tecs (Although, I'm now strongly considering one), but I've played quite a bit, with it, and against it, and I've noticed that the D.tecs has this sort of effect (especially on passive blocks, against top-spins), where the ball kind of halts, on the first bounce, on the other side, and then continues to proceed further.. Hence, I use the term Braking-Effect, and it seems to mess around with the opponent's timing..

When comparing any LP to D.tecs, the one thing I'm always interested in knowing is how it compares in Braking Effect, and Disruption (not to be confused with straight-forward reversal) ...

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2019, 19:58 
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kartik wrote:
Dear all,
Could u please compare Dtecs(0.5) VS TM(0.6) on a scale of 1-10 on
1>Serve Return
2> Pushes
3> Blocks
4> Chops
5> Roll/Hits
6>Serves with pips
Thanks in advance
-regards


Infact, I'd like to know how it compares to DG, especially Passive Blocks, Chop-Blocks, and Aggressive Pushes, all these parameters , with the new ball, ofcourse..

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2019, 04:00 
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Blade: Donic WSUC
FH: Donic Bluestorm Z1 Turbo
BH: Dr Neubauer Aggressor 1.5
Dr Neubauer Troublemaker black OX
Personnal conclusion and short review.

Chop blocks:
Active chopblocks are very good, good speed and good reversal
Passive blocks, less reversal but possible to keep the ball on the table with little sink and medium speed.

Long distance defence:
Very good reversal long distance
But I think that you have to play the Troublemaker near the table to get the most out of it.

Attacking possibilitys:
Easy to open up backspin with LP technique or sort of topspin stroke.
Possible to attack opponent serve. Good grip.

Deception:
Comes from the flexibility of the rubber. Good attacking possibilitys.
Not the most disruptive effect, but a lot of flexibility makes it deceptive.
Active blockstrokes with good reversal, passive blockstrokes a bit less.
Good control in defence with high reversal ball for a pip in OX.
Good variation possible in attack and defensive shots.

Conclusion: :punch:
Good control easy to use after time to adapt, speed is medium-slow, spininsensitive.
Pushes are controlable and ok.
Play active (active chopblock, attack backspin,… ) to get the most out of it in a close to the table game.
It takes the pace of really well if your bat is moving.

A fun to use, and a good new experience :) Thx DOC :up:


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2019, 04:25 
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BJ20 wrote:
Dr Neubauer Troublemaker black OX
Personnal conclusion and short review.

Chop blocks:
Active chopblocks are very good, good speed and good reversal
Passive blocks, less reversal but possible to keep the ball on the table with little sink and medium speed.

Long distance defence:
Very good reversal long distance
But I think that you have to play the Troublemaker near the table to get the most out of it.

Attacking possibilitys:
Easy to open up backspin with LP technique or sort of topspin stroke.
Possible to attack opponent serve. Good grip.

Deception:
Comes from the flexibility of the rubber. Good attacking possibilitys.
Not the most disruptive effect, but a lot of flexibility makes it deceptive.
Active blockstrokes with good reversal, passive blockstrokes a bit less.
Good control in defence with high reversal ball for a pip in OX.
Good variation possible in attack and defensive shots.

Conclusion: :punch:
Good control easy to use after time to adapt, speed is medium-slow, spininsensitive.
Pushes are controlable and ok.
Play active (active chopblock, attack backspin,… ) to get the most out of it in a close to the table game.
It takes the pace of really well if your bat is moving.

A fun to use, and a good new experience :) Thx DOC :up:


Thanks for the review.. What blade did you to pair it with ?

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2019, 21:14 
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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 00:19 
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Having played with Troublemaker for a while now, I thought I'd give an update on my impressions. I played a tournament a couple of weeks ago where I was playing all players rated higher than me (most in the 1800-2200 USATT level).
I started out playing a closer to the table style, pushing, chop blocking, and hitting with the TM. I was able to beat a player early on who was rated just under 1800 so I was encouraged by my results. As the first day of the tournament went along, something became apparent to me. And it's a topic that has been discussed on this forum. The fact that, with the new ball, shots are generally more "fast" than "spinny", especially as the level of the player goes up. The main problem I was having was, for very good players, once they adjusted to the pace of the TM, they didn't generally have a lot of difficulty re-looping.
On the second day I backed off the table a step to give myself more time to chop block and chop a little more, and played more of a control game on my forehand also. This strategy worked better. I didn't win any matches, but I did manage to take multiple games off players in the 1900-2200 level. I was able to drop balls a little shorter and at better angles with more time. And, attacks were very effective because they were so dead. But, again these players generally were able to adjust to the TM.
This has led me to the idea, which I believe has been discussed here, that the TM is very effective for defense up to a certain level. But above that level, you're a bit at the mercy of your opponent. This isn't to say that TM isn't a good rubber. I still believe it is. However, I just question my "ceiling" with it, that is, how high could I go. I know I could comfortably play at my 1700 level with it, but I don't know if I could go higher.
So, I've chosen to try a style that's at mid distance, moving in and back as needed, and give a try to TSP P1-R Curl in 0.3-0.6 mm sponge. I had a couple of days over the weekend to give it a try, and while I made a number of mistakes due to how different it is from TM, I can see a lot of potential with it. From that distance, the ability to send back heavier spin was noticeable. It was also easier to mix spin and dead balls. I had to adjust the angle of my blade, since it felt like the throw was a lot lower than the TM, but once I did things went well. The biggest areas where I think TM has an edge are control and hitting.
As I've read elsewhere, you have to be spot on with reading the spin and get the right blade angle. TM is far more forgiving. Hitting with my pips is a big part of my game, and the hits from TM were more disruptive. The TSP rubber has more ability to generate its own spin in my opinion, and thus the hits are more "normal", as they have a bit of top spin on them, rather than the flat balls from TM.
Still, the players that I normally play were definitely more troubled by my defense with the P1-R. Thus, I think I may have a higher ceiling with it. I'll give it a little time, see if I can develop my control with it and if I'm more or less competitive with the group at the next level above me.

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USATT Rating: 1712
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: Testing various frictionless antis, including Dr N ABS2 Soft, DMS Scandal, DMS Diabolic Extra Slow


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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 00:47 
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dwruck wrote:
Having played with Troublemaker for a while now, I thought I'd give an update on my impressions. I played a tournament a couple of weeks ago where I was playing all players rated higher than me (most in the 1800-2200 USATT level).
I started out playing a closer to the table style, pushing, chop blocking, and hitting with the TM. I was able to beat a player early on who was rated just under 1800 so I was encouraged by my results. As the first day of the tournament went along, something became apparent to me. And it's a topic that has been discussed on this forum. The fact that, with the new ball, shots are generally more "fast" than "spinny", especially as the level of the player goes up. The main problem I was having was, for very good players, once they adjusted to the pace of the TM, they didn't generally have a lot of difficulty re-looping.
On the second day I backed off the table a step to give myself more time to chop block and chop a little more, and played more of a control game on my forehand also. This strategy worked better. I didn't win any matches, but I did manage to take multiple games off players in the 1900-2200 level. I was able to drop balls a little shorter and at better angles with more time. And, attacks were very effective because they were so dead. But, again these players generally were able to adjust to the TM.
This has led me to the idea, which I believe has been discussed here, that the TM is very effective for defense up to a certain level. But above that level, you're a bit at the mercy of your opponent. This isn't to say that TM isn't a good rubber. I still believe it is. However, I just question my "ceiling" with it, that is, how high could I go. I know I could comfortably play at my 1700 level with it, but I don't know if I could go higher.
So, I've chosen to try a style that's at mid distance, moving in and back as needed, and give a try to TSP P1-R Curl in 0.3-0.6 mm sponge. I had a couple of days over the weekend to give it a try, and while I made a number of mistakes due to how different it is from TM, I can see a lot of potential with it. From that distance, the ability to send back heavier spin was noticeable. It was also easier to mix spin and dead balls. I had to adjust the angle of my blade, since it felt like the throw was a lot lower than the TM, but once I did things went well. The biggest areas where I think TM has an edge are control and hitting.
As I've read elsewhere, you have to be spot on with reading the spin and get the right blade angle. TM is far more forgiving. Hitting with my pips is a big part of my game, and the hits from TM were more disruptive. The TSP rubber has more ability to generate its own spin in my opinion, and thus the hits are more "normal", as they have a bit of top spin on them, rather than the flat balls from TM.
Still, the players that I normally play were definitely more troubled by my defense with the P1-R. Thus, I think I may have a higher ceiling with it. I'll give it a little time, see if I can develop my control with it and if I'm more or less competitive with the group at the next level above me.


What you have just narrated so well mirrors my impressions about TM that I posted in this thread some weeks ago ,which reinforces my theory on TM : TM from about 2200 USA level players up is harmless as they can reloop easily .

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35152&start=360


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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 01:13 
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charmander defender wrote:
dwruck wrote:
The main problem I was having was, for very good players, once they adjusted to the pace of the TM, they didn't generally have a lot of difficulty re-looping.


What you have just narrated so well mirrors my impressions about TM that I posted in this thread some weeks ago ,which reinforces my theory on TM : TM from about 2200 USA level players up is harmless as they can reloop easily .

2200? In my area, even the 1700s have no trouble relooping against TM. The key to success with TM is preventing the opponent from looping to begin with. If that's not possible, use a more disruptive pip.

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