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 Post subject: Recieving with Long Pips
PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 22:36 
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Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita
FH: Andro Rasanter r47 2.3mm
BH: S&T Hellfire 0.9
So recently, I realized the main thing holding me back in my game was my recieve. The main issue is a long sidespin serve to my BH, pips. What happens is much weaker players are able to come in straight away with a big attack leaving me troubled. This is because, if I chop it, the ball comes back to them with little or no spin and even quite high due to a lack of control, and then attacking it is usually weak.
Any suggestions much appreciated :D

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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 01:07 
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I have played with Hellfire 0.9 previously and found that returns were very slow and with little spin.
When I played with Hellfire with no sponge(ox), returns were must better and with more disruption and spin. I suggest that you switch to ox and your game will improve.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 03:45 
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BH: S&T Hellfire 0.9
jmkeynes wrote:
I have played with Hellfire 0.9 previously and found that returns were very slow and with little spin.
When I played with Hellfire with no sponge(ox), returns were must better and with more disruption and spin. I suggest that you switch to ox and your game will improve.

Thanks for the idea! One thing I love about the .9mm is that it's so easy to attack with in the point. Is the OX different much differen from a chopping and attacking perspectives, thinking about spin, speed and control?
Thanks :rofl: :Chop:

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S/U 1-Blade:Victas Koji Matsushita FH: Andro Rasanter r47 BH: Hellfire 0.9mm
S/U 2 - Blade: BTY Joo We Hyuk FH: Evolution E-LS BH: Hellfire 0.9mm


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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 04:25 
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ModernDef wrote:
jmkeynes wrote:
I have played with Hellfire 0.9 previously and found that returns were very slow and with little spin.
When I played with Hellfire with no sponge(ox), returns were must better and with more disruption and spin. I suggest that you switch to ox and your game will improve.

Thanks for the idea! One thing I love about the .9mm is that it's so easy to attack with in the point. Is the OX different much differen from a chopping and attacking perspectives, thinking about spin, speed and control?
Thanks :rofl: :Chop:


The returns with Hellfire ox will be slightly quicker than the sponge version. This is because there is no sponge to cushion the speed of the ball. The control with ox, is very good and when your opponent gives you spin, you will return the ball with lots of reversal and disruption.
Often you can make a return close to the table with little movement of the blade. Just block or chop block the returns.
If you stay at the table, Hellfire ox, will hit well, if you hit at the top of the bounce. Away from the table, you are better chopping.
I recently switched to Troublemaker ox from Hellfire ox, since I found that Troublemaker has a better grip and better for attacking. Also troublemaker is slower than Hellfire, which gives good control. However, I play well with both rubbers. You should read the posts on this forum on Troublemaker.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 04:32 
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I've played with Hellfire OX for nearly two years now, so I feel like I know it pretty well. Personally I find it hard to attack with - timing has to be just right, with very little margin for error. I don't attack much with LP anyway, so it's not big deal for me.

Interestingly I've played for the last 2 weeks with Hellfire 0.9, because I managed to badly rip my OX sheet in a tournament, and the only spare rubber I could lay my hands on quickly was a Hellfire 0.9. Interestingly I found this *much much* better for attacking - like a very big difference. However, I found it much more spin sensitive, and my close to the table game, and service return suffered greatly. Was nice for chopping away from the table. I stuck with it for a few training sessions just to see if I could get used to it, but I swapped back to OX again on Thursday night.

In terms of your specific issue - I find a side-swipe is the most effective shot against a long side-spin serve. I'm particularly vulnerable to a long backspin serve into my BH - it's an LP player's achilles heel, IMO. I've actually been investing time in practicing receiving serve with inverted on the BH, to give me more options - if you can do this, especially if you can twiddle quickly, it gives you a real bonus - players might thing they can use a standard anti-lp strategy into your BH and find themselves staring down the barrel of a big BH topspin, or a heavy dig. Then they go back to a short, spinny serve, and you come in with the pips. Definitely worth spending time on imo.

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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 04:35 
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jmkeynes wrote:
I recently switched to Troublemaker ox from Hellfire ox


Aha, I was wondering if there were any Hellfire->Troublemaker converts around. After reading all the love for Troublemaker, I do confess to being intrigued. How would you describe the difference when returning serves with heavy spin?

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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 04:55 
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LordCope wrote:
jmkeynes wrote:
I recently switched to Troublemaker ox from Hellfire ox


Aha, I was wondering if there were any Hellfire->Troublemaker converts around. After reading all the love for Troublemaker, I do confess to being intrigued. How would you describe the difference when returning serves with heavy spin?


I find the grip on the Troublemaker to be much better than on the hellfire. This makes it easier to hit with the Troublemaker. On the hellfire, if your timing is off, then the ball sort of drops off and makes it difficult to attack.
Some opponents say that troublemaker is not as disruptive as Hellfire, but the control makes up for this.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 11:04 
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Why do you chop it? Just block and try to return as short as possible to their forehand. Most low (and not so low) level players don’t realize it returns with their own spin and their next shot would likely be wide. The ones who really know how to play against you will serve quick long no spin serves to your backhand, but this is a completely different story.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 23:20 
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BH: S&T Hellfire 0.9
LordCope wrote:
I've played with Hellfire OX for nearly two years now, so I feel like I know it pretty well. Personally I find it hard to attack with - timing has to be just right, with very little margin for error. I don't attack much with LP anyway, so it's not big deal for me.

Interestingly I've played for the last 2 weeks with Hellfire 0.9, because I managed to badly rip my OX sheet in a tournament, and the only spare rubber I could lay my hands on quickly was a Hellfire 0.9. Interestingly I found this *much much* better for attacking - like a very big difference. However, I found it much more spin sensitive, and my close to the table game, and service return suffered greatly. Was nice for chopping away from the table. I stuck with it for a few training sessions just to see if I could get used to it, but I swapped back to OX again on Thursday night.

In terms of your specific issue - I find a side-swipe is the most effective shot against a long side-spin serve. I'm particularly vulnerable to a long backspin serve into my BH - it's an LP player's achilles heel, IMO. I've actually been investing time in practicing receiving serve with inverted on the BH, to give me more options - if you can do this, especially if you can twiddle quickly, it gives you a real bonus - players might thing they can use a standard anti-lp strategy into your BH and find themselves staring down the barrel of a big BH topspin, or a heavy dig. Then they go back to a short, spinny serve, and you come in with the pips. Definitely worth spending time on imo.

Thanks a lot for the help guys :D Just for your comparison for the hellfire OX version and the .9mm. At the moment, I love the sponge version in terms or chopping and attacking (not recieving :lol: ), but find the sheet seems to unattach to the sponge, one of the reasons I'm prepared to move to OX. Now, is the OX easier to recieve with, because I found that the sponge version was very sensitive to spin, leaving me with an uncontrolled recieve. Also, how does it compare with spin it can produce, more than with sponge. And I assume it's much easier to chop block with close to the table, just difficult to attack.
Thanks :Chop:

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S/U 1-Blade:Victas Koji Matsushita FH: Andro Rasanter r47 BH: Hellfire 0.9mm
S/U 2 - Blade: BTY Joo We Hyuk FH: Evolution E-LS BH: Hellfire 0.9mm


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PostPosted: 27 May 2019, 01:40 
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I have played with Hellfire 0.9 and hellfire ox and I found that the ox version was much better.
When receiving with ox, you can stay up to the table and chop block the return or just play a passive block. I just love it when my opponent put lots of side spin onto their serve. A passive block will return the ball with massive disruption and this puts them into difficulties.
The main drawback with the hellfire ox, is that if the opponent gives little or no spin on serves or during play, then the hellfire ox, finds it difficult to attack. However if you attack quickly, when the return is high, then the ox version works well.
The main reason why I changed to Troublemaker ox, was that this rubber has more grip and this makes attacking and lifting easier. You can allow the ball to be lower and to make the attack a little later. I also found Troublemaker to be slower than Hellfire and gives more control. The choice of blade is also important. If the blade is very fast on the backhand, you might find Troublemaker is a better option, since it will slow down your returns.
If you do change to the ox version of hellfire or Troublemaker, take your time in fixing the rubber to the blade. It is best to put glue onto the blade only and then be very careful on attaching the rubber to the blade. Alternatively you could get an experienced user of ox rubbers, to attach it for you.


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PostPosted: 27 May 2019, 01:53 
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LordCope wrote:
I've played with Hellfire OX for nearly two years now, so I feel like I know it pretty well. Personally I find it hard to attack with - timing has to be just right, with very little margin for error. I don't attack much with LP anyway, so it's not big deal for me.

Interestingly I've played for the last 2 weeks with Hellfire 0.9, because I managed to badly rip my OX sheet in a tournament, and the only spare rubber I could lay my hands on quickly was a Hellfire 0.9. Interestingly I found this *much much* better for attacking - like a very big difference. However, I found it much more spin sensitive, and my close to the table game, and service return suffered greatly. Was nice for chopping away from the table. I stuck with it for a few training sessions just to see if I could get used to it, but I swapped back to OX again on Thursday night.

In terms of your specific issue - I find a side-swipe is the most effective shot against a long side-spin serve. I'm particularly vulnerable to a long backspin serve into my BH - it's an LP player's achilles heel, IMO. I've actually been investing time in practicing receiving serve with inverted on the BH, to give me more options - if you can do this, especially if you can twiddle quickly, it gives you a real bonus - players might thing they can use a standard anti-lp strategy into your BH and find themselves staring down the barrel of a big BH topspin, or a heavy dig. Then they go back to a short, spinny serve, and you come in with the pips. Definitely worth spending time on imo.


I looked up the characteristics of your blade on tabletennis db and it has a relative high speed.
If you change to Troublemaker ox, this should slow down your returns and give you more control. Also Troublemaker has more grip than Hellfire, so your backhand attack should improve.
Let me know if you try Troublemaker on your blade.


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