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PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 06:12 
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As a Ma Te fan boy, just curious if anybody has used palio ck531a for chopping as a modern defender. Ideally would like to hear how it plays compared to its bigger rivals like Curl P1r, Dtechs, etc.

I'm particularly interested to hear about the sponged version, or if someone has slapped their own custom sponge thickness under it (as seen it only goes up to 1mm), but still want to hear your views if you've used it in OX.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 06:50 
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Blade: Joola CWX
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BH: Troublemaker ox
My team mate has played with JSH blade and ck531 1.0 for a while (while testing other combinations). I have also tried it and control felt great. Certainly worth testing. :up:


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 14:39 
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Hi,

I played with a 0.6mm sponged CK531A, on my Defplay Senso V3, for around 6 months or so...

  • It's a wee bit on the faster side.
  • The reversal on passive block is pretty decent.
  • The Mudflap stroke (https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=33868&p=368202&hilit=mudflap#p368202) with this LP, is very very effective, and produces weird trajectories, side-spin/topspin ...
  • Chopping against topspin, away from the table, produced a good amount backspin...
  • On the flip-side, I found it difficult to attack with (This could be a technique thing), as compared to Yinhe Neptune (0.6mm), and even Dawei 388D-1 (OX)...
  • Apart from the weird balls produced against backspin, using the mudflap, I found it to be not so deceptive/disruptive...
  • I found it difficult to return short, with these pips ...
  • Transferred this LP to the 729 C5 blade, which is in the All range, and, to me, it seems barely playable ...

I will, for sure, come back to playing with the CK531A, in the future ... perhaps in OX, and on a different blade (Open on suggestions)..


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 17:06 
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It's a pretty low friction pip. I used it for a few years in OX on a slow blade. Pretty good spin reversal. I think Bomb Talent is better with the plastic ball. I'm more of a blocker than a chopper.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 17:42 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
It's a pretty low friction pip. I used it for a few years in OX on a slow blade. Pretty good spin reversal. I think Bomb Talent is better with the plastic ball.


umm... Maybe it's my technique, or even the blade, but I feel that the reversal on the BT is not that much, when compared to D.tecs or even CK531A ... .. On the other hand, BT can be more dangerous, compared to CK531A, due to some sort of (I can't put my finger on it) subtle disruption... The operative word here is subtle .... Plus, I feel I can hit better with BT, compared to CK531A, probably due to the fact that it's grippier than CK531A..

Perhaps, I should try the BT with another Blade...


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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 03:34 
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Doesn't sound like the rubber has any defining characteristics. I'm waiting for someone to tell me it's amazing, but it doesn't sound like it stands out enough to go out of my way and try. Though it's really cheap so probably worth a shot anyway.

My sole reason for being curious about it is that photographs zoomed in show Ma Te uses it, seemingly on custom 1.5mm sponge, and he is able to get good backspin on his chops and even vary the spin. But low grip would seemingly cancel that out. Perhaps he doesn't actually use this rubber, or he's able to vary spin through some other way.

I'd consider Dtechs fairly low grip and liked it well enough, but the only two long pips that have really stood out for me are P1r and P4, probably becauss of the grip.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 06:34 
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I do apologise for posting something different that has nothing to do with the title of the post but as it is about Palio Ck 531A, I'd like to ask anybody here how does Palio CK performs with the new ball as I gave my sheets away a long time ago ,....

My interest is passive blocking and chopblocking,....I used to have palio Ck in the past but sometimes it was too fast for my liking and also erratic in some strokes,thus, losing consistency,.... however, as some of the classical pips still work fine with the new ball ( BT,Globe...),maybe Palio Ck still has some potential ,....

I did like Palio Ck reversal a lot ,...is anybody here still using Palio Ck for close to the table defense?

Back in the day some people used the rubber for modern defense and with decent results,...but as I have said, I do not know its performance with the new ball ,.. thank you !!!


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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 08:19 
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I've played with it for a year and half or so and it can pretty much do anything. How easy it is to block heavy topspin close to table heavy will depend more on your blade. I use JSH blade and to block heavy topspin close to table or chop block I had to play with it a long time. If you have a slower blade it should be easier I assume.


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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 18:18 
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Snowman89 wrote:
My sole reason for being curious about it is that photographs zoomed in show Ma Te uses it, seemingly on custom 1.5mm sponge, and he is able to get good backspin on his chops and even vary the spin. But low grip would seemingly cancel that out. Perhaps he doesn't actually use this rubber, or he's able to vary spin through some other way.


nahh... he probably doesn't use the same rubber ... Most of the pro players have access to Magic Fairy dust, that they sprinkle on the sponge and rubber ... It's absolutely nothing to do with their technique, practice, and hard-work, all of which is on the same level as ours...


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2020, 02:55 
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ootbs wrote:


nahh... he probably doesn't use the same rubber ... Most of the pro players have access to Magic Fairy dust, that they sprinkle on the sponge and rubber ... It's absolutely nothing to do with their technique, practice, and hard-work, all of which is on the same level as ours...


Magical fairy dust and a player getting good variations in backspin with a low grip high reversal long pip are not the same thing... Anyway, long pips are not grippy smooth rubber. Yes, the player behind the long pip is what really matters at the end of the day, but let's not look over the fact thst long pips do have a rather direct say over what you can and cannot do, at least effectively. If a long pip is low in friction and say has no sponge underneath, getting variations in your chops is somewhat of a no go, isn't it. Of course, you could change the angle the ball makes contact with the pips and such and create variety there but I'm talking actively reducing and adding to incoming spin to send back variations in your chop, adding spin to low spin/dead balls, 'floating' off heavy loops etc. while keeping a similar motion to not give away the deception with your stroke. No long pip is amazing at this and you'd have to go to short pips or grippy smooth rubber to achieve a huge variety of spin on your chops. But rubbers like P4 and Feint Long 3, specifically with sponge, can spin quite well still with active strokes (heavy spin on dead balls, floats off loops etc.). You can apply some variations with P1r too, though again more so with sponge. But these are all grippy pips. If Palio is a low friction pip, and Ma uses it, then he'd have to be getting variation through use of the sponge underneath it (he uses 1.5mm sponge, so plenty to achieve variations) . But from watching Ma, it's hard to believe he's so skilled as to create almost mid pip short pip variations at times with his chops with a low friction long pip. That must make him the most effective long pip chopper ever, leagues above second place. Its like looping like Xu Xin with a frying pan (OK, not thst drastic). That's what I was saying. No magic fairy dust, but I'd say if what people here are saying is true, then it's hard to believe Ma Te used the Palio rubber under discussion. Unless it has some qualities that are only activated at higher levels, like P4. Rubbish to many but that's because it is a requirement to be able to cut heavy and actively vary the spin yourself.

Ma Te does have a very light touch style chop motion though, so in thst respect a high reversal low friction long pip would make sense, like what Palio seems to be. Very different to Weixing and Joo, who really dig the ball with grippy long pips. But could also be down to speed of sponge etc.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2020, 16:12 
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Snowman89 wrote:
ootbs wrote:


nahh... he probably doesn't use the same rubber ... Most of the pro players have access to Magic Fairy dust, that they sprinkle on the sponge and rubber ... It's absolutely nothing to do with their technique, practice, and hard-work, all of which is on the same level as ours...


Magical fairy dust and a player getting good variations in backspin with a low grip high reversal long pip are not the same thing... Anyway, long pips are not grippy smooth rubber. Yes, the player behind the long pip is what really matters at the end of the day, but let's not look over the fact thst long pips do have a rather direct say over what you can and cannot do, at least effectively. If a long pip is low in friction and say has no sponge underneath, getting variations in your chops is somewhat of a no go, isn't it. Of course, you could change the angle the ball makes contact with the pips and such and create variety there but I'm talking actively reducing and adding to incoming spin to send back variations in your chop, adding spin to low spin/dead balls, 'floating' off heavy loops etc. while keeping a similar motion to not give away the deception with your stroke. No long pip is amazing at this and you'd have to go to short pips or grippy smooth rubber to achieve a huge variety of spin on your chops. But rubbers like P4 and Feint Long 3, specifically with sponge, can spin quite well still with active strokes (heavy spin on dead balls, floats off loops etc.). You can apply some variations with P1r too, though again more so with sponge. But these are all grippy pips. If Palio is a low friction pip, and Ma uses it, then he'd have to be getting variation through use of the sponge underneath it (he uses 1.5mm sponge, so plenty to achieve variations) . But from watching Ma, it's hard to believe he's so skilled as to create almost mid pip short pip variations at times with his chops with a low friction long pip. That must make him the most effective long pip chopper ever, leagues above second place. Its like looping like Xu Xin with a frying pan (OK, not thst drastic). That's what I was saying. No magic fairy dust, but I'd say if what people here are saying is true, then it's hard to believe Ma Te used the Palio rubber under discussion. Unless it has some qualities that are only activated at higher levels, like P4. Rubbish to many but that's because it is a requirement to be able to cut heavy and actively vary the spin yourself.

Ma Te does have a very light touch style chop motion though, so in thst respect a high reversal low friction long pip would make sense, like what Palio seems to be. Very different to Weixing and Joo, who really dig the ball with grippy long pips. But could also be down to speed of sponge etc.


My apologies was being snarky .. was not having the best of days, yesterday ... Anyway, what I am saying is that I wouldn't recommend making assumptions about equipment based on the fact that a pro (especially not world-ranked players) uses it ... I'll bet my house that someone like Joo or even Ma Te would be able to generate more or atleast as much backspin (on a chop), with a D.tecs, than most of us would with a P4... A while back, I came across an interview of one of CNT coaches (I think) , where he was talking about Ma Long's FH rubber... He went on to mention that the rubber ML uses, would be seem to be dead and unplayable to most other players (even high-ranked Pros), and yet ..... These guys have perfected their game-play, technique, and power, which is why they are high-ranked... For example... Even if you've been driving a regular car for 25 years, you won't be able to handle a Formula car ...

On the other hand, I'll agree with you, if you're saying that his CK531A could be different from the ones available off the shelf...I've heard that manufacturers will make a custom equipment for these elite players, but yet label it the same as one of their commercial off-the-shelf offerings... I'm guessing, as a marketing ploy ..


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2020, 16:32 
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Sun Jian Fei was using ox version 531a pre plastic ball era at high level,might be better with sponge now
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... QxUfLVlA5l

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2020, 22:50 
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ootbs wrote:

My apologies was being snarky .. was not having the best of days, yesterday ... Anyway, what I am saying is that I wouldn't recommend making assumptions about equipment based on the fact that a pro (especially not world-ranked players) uses it ... I'll bet my house that someone like Joo or even Ma Te would be able to generate more or atleast as much backspin (on a chop), with a D.tecs, than most of us would with a P4... A while back, I came across an interview of one of CNT coaches (I think) , where he was talking about Ma Long's FH rubber... He went on to mention that the rubber ML uses, would be seem to be dead and unplayable to most other players (even high-ranked Pros), and yet ..... These guys have perfected their game-play, technique, and power, which is why they are high-ranked... For example... Even if you've been driving a regular car for 25 years, you won't be able to handle a Formula car ...

On the other hand, I'll agree with you, if you're saying that his CK531A could be different from the ones available off the shelf...I've heard that manufacturers will make a custom equipment for these elite players, but yet label it the same as one of their commercial off-the-shelf offerings... I'm guessing, as a marketing ploy ..


I'd disagree with that opening point to an extent, though yes, what a pro uses does not nesseccarily point to attributes of their equipment. But in general, a pro uses what they use to suit the style of play they have. Same in tennis. They don't use random equipment. Joo isn't using max thickness Tenergy on both sides (used or still uses Tenergy 1.9mm on forehand) on a carbon blade and going all chopper on people, just like Ma Long isn't using a defensive blade with Tackiness chop 1mm on forehand and long pips on backhand to go all 'I'll kick your ass with one forehand' on people. So we can go by what they use as a reference (even though as you say, sometimes their equipment is custom), and you often see common links in type of play among players using a specific rubber or combination.

If a test was done with a decent amateur with P4 say 1.5mm chopping compared to Joo with a Dtechs in same thickness for fairness, Joo might get more backspin on first ball in most cases (but I wouldnt bet on it), despite Dtechs not being as grippy. But I'd say this test, if we're just looking at the first ball, would also be very reliant on the quality of the first ball coming at them. A dead enough ball, the amateur, so long as he has a decent cut, will get more spin than even Joo with Dtechs. Again, looking at first chop here. I'm putting thst down to the huge difference in grip between the rubbers, so more of a physics issue than skill.

I've read Ma Long's version of Hurricane has a super, like really low throw. Lower than the already low commercial one. So you've got to be really good to take advantage of thst. It wouldn't be beneficial to many. But it's definitely not dead.

Also, I think we sometimes overestimate the level of pros. For instance, I saw years back an elite F1 driver get beaten in a timed race by a chef when they both used a normal car. Joo Sae Hyuk was beaten around his prime in a friendly in France against one of their hardbat players, both using a hard bat. No offense to the hsrdbst player, but Joo you'd have thought would hsve been able to use his left hand and one of those mini tt toy bat's and still beat him game 2 per game. But that didn't happen. He lost, and rather embarrassingly if memory serves. Waldner lost to a local league player in a hardbst tournament if I remember correctly. So the whole 'a pro can pick up a shovel and still beat amateurs' might not always be true. But they have perfected their element. And you'd think heavy backspin would be Joo's element, but he obviously wasn't generating insane backspin with the hardbst. Joo did alternate Dtechs and P1r though in his prime supposedly, so very different to switching to something entirely different like a hardbat.

So coming back to original point. If Ma Te is using this Palio rubber, he's using it for a reason.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2020, 22:52 
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dazzler wrote:
Sun Jian Fei was using ox version 531a pre plastic ball era at high level,might be better with sponge now
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... QxUfLVlA5l


Thanks for the linked video :up:

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2020, 23:18 
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Blade: Grubba All+
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dazzler wrote:
Sun Jian Fei was using ox version 531a pre plastic ball era at high level,might be better with sponge now
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... QxUfLVlA5l


So it means 531a ox works much worse with the new ball?....


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