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 Post subject: LP against Power Loopers
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2019, 20:25 
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Hi,

I've been playing with Long Pips, now, for around 1.5 years, and although, I'm not as bad as I used to be, when I started, I feel I've barely scratched the surface, on how to play with LPs ...

So far, I've bought, only Chinese LP (and, am fairly please with most of them), but, I feel I should explore the rest of world too .. :P So, now, I'm going to head Westwards ...

I'm looking for setup, to use, mainly against power-loopers ... players, who can loop, relentlessly, from BH and FH, and from anywhere around the table... The LPs I'm currently using (Read my signature), don't seem to offer me much, against this type of players .. Okay, maybe, Bomb Talent, to a small extent...

So, based on what I've read on various thread on OOAK, I'm thinking of the following LPs ...

  • Troublemaker (TM)
  • D.tecs
  • Dornenglanz

Now, a bit about my LP playing-style ...

  • Crappy technical footwork, but decent mobility around the table (Does this statement even make any sense ?).. I often get wrong-footed
  • More than good upper-body reflexes and reaction, even when up-close to the table ... I will almost always get the racquet to the ball (although, the ball may not be in play, after it's got my racquet), even against the hardest of smashes or the most powerful loops/top-spins..
  • I almost always passive block
  • I will, move away from the table to chop (LP side) or fish (inverted side), against loops/top-spins ... I'd rate my chopping skills as 5/10 ... I often get caught, in-between, while moving away...
  • When close to the table, I don't take the ball just off-the-bounce ... I'm working towards doing so, but will little success ..
  • I've just-about started attacking with my LP... Success ratio is just 50-50 .. I've realized that my attacks are more consistent with the Bomb Talent
  • I've gotten fairly good playing the mud-flap stroke, against back-spin.
  • Fairly decent at working the ball around the table, and I like doing so .. Does not work against hard loops or hits
  • I like changing the pace ... cutting it out , at times, or, at times, pushing fast n long

So, apart from reversal...I'd like a LP/setup that ..
  • has a crazy braking-effect
  • Is disruptive (skids, screw-balls, weird trajectories, deceptive flight, etc.)
  • that has a dampening effect, and makes it easy to cut the pace-off those power-loops
  • Produces enough back-spin against loops (even against passive blocks), for the opponent to respect the return
  • makes it easy to move the ball around...

So considering what I've mentioned above, which one would you guys recommend ? I'm also open LPs, other than these 3..

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2019, 22:14 
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Blade: Joola CWX
FH: S&T Secret Flow 2.1
BH: Troublemaker ox
I have used all the pips you mentioned. I had serious problems against hard loops with every one of them. :sweat: I think that ox LP is mostly pre-emptive: you had to stop opponent from making hard loops. If they loop hard, it's best to chop from far away. Blocking hard loops works out now and then, but it's not consistent for me. Maybe others can help you better... :up:


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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2019, 22:42 
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Blade: Grubba all+
FH: Moristo DF 1.2 :)))
BH: DG ox/Globe 979 ox
Breaking effect : Talon and Snowflake are a safe choice in my view .

Do all the things you mention ,TM but in a scale of 1-10, I'd say : 6/7, which means you cannot get max effect in all departments .

D.Techs seems to still perform ok but the speed is a problem... etc all the pips have advantages and drawbacks .

No lp with the current limitations will perform the way you have described.You must choose one or two features where the rubber excels and try to master them . Also, I suggest you develop mastery with the inverted.The new ball also forces us to change our style .

Step 2 would be to tune the rubber,which of course THE ONLY positive thing I see is to take the mickey out of the ittf . :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , which I think they beautifully DESERVE !! .

Hence, people like FD and others duly have a place in TT :rock: :rock: - I just abbreviate for the sake of respect - :up: . I do not want to start a war here . :rock:


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2019, 10:08 
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Just my two cents - Why not settle for one you are currently using and feel confident playing with and build your game on that LP? Every LP has its positives and negatives so there will be a trade-off (I am sure you already know that). Although I can confidently play with Dawei388D and TM (since very recently), BT will always be my no.1. I chose and stuck with it since initially switching to LP. It does a pretty good job in coping against all opposition. I play just for fun and recreation but most opposition (comp players) I encounter weekly in practice are fairly strong, some very strong (yes, power loopers too). BT for me does well against every style (below, on par and above) my level and I use it with confidence. My approach to TT is to play well, with confidence and enjoy myself using LP - win or lose! BT certainly delivers that very well. :rock:
I see you already play with BT and like it to an extent. Just stick with it and build your game on it and in the long run you will see what a versatile all-round effective LP it really is. I can ensure you this is not my biased opinion. Good luck anyway with finding your No.1 LP. :up:


Last edited by TTbuddy on 07 Oct 2019, 18:35, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2019, 12:14 
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charmander defender wrote:
Step 2 would be to tune the rubber,which of course THE ONLY positive thing I see is to take the mickey out of the ittf . :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , which I think they beautifully DESERVE !! .


1) How do you tune long pips? :lol:

2) Why do you think ITTF would care?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2019, 19:31 
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For close to the table blocking IMHO Dtechs OX is the best. I block the ball very early
and love receiving topspin balls which can be returned with lots of backspin.
I suggest you practise blocking off the bounce against topspin balls until confident.


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2019, 19:45 
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Hi,

I'm already well aware of fact that no single LP will offer me everything I want, and that there'd be some trade-offs ... For example, I'm aware that D.tecs, while offering decent amount of reversal, and even braking-effect, is fast, and can be difficult to control.... But, if the general consensus is that installing it on so-and so blade would make it easier to control, then it's something, I might just consider... Or, if the general consensus is that all of D.tecs plus-points, make it worth-it, then I'm willing to accept the trade-off, of the difficultly in control.

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2019, 20:12 
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TTbuddy wrote:
Just my two cents - Why not settle for one you are currently using and feel confident playing with and build your game on that LP? Every LP has its positives and negatives so there will be a trade-off (I am sure you already know that). Although I can confidently play with Dawei388D and TM (since very recently), BT will always be my no.1. I chose and stuck with it since initially switching to LP. It does a pretty good job in coping against all opposition. I play just for fun and recreation but most opposition (comp players) I encounter weekly in practice are fairly strong, some very strong (yes, power loopers too). BT for me does well against every style (below, on par and above) my level and I use it with confidence. My approach to TT is to play well, with confidence and enjoy myself using LP - win or lose! BT certainly delivers that very well. :rock:
I see you already play with BT and like it to an extent. Just stick with it and build your game on it and in the long run you will see what a versatile all-round effective LP it really is. I can ensure you this is not my biased opinion. Good luck anyway with finding your No.1 LP. :up:


Of all the LPs, I'm currently using, BT seems to be cause the average opponent, the most trouble ... However, this is not the case against these relentless power-loopers, and here's my hypothesis, on why so ..

  • First, and most important - I must acknowledge, the limitations of my skills
  • BT is good, but I've realized it's so, mostly with active strokes ... When I chop-block, in practice ( I cannot seem to carry this into game-play... not yet), most loopers, dump my return into the net.. I've, only recently started practicing the chop-block (off-the-bounce), and so, my practice partners go easy on me...For now, in game-play, muscle-memory, makes me passive-block, most of the times, and, at times, it'll make me step 3-5 feet away from the table and chop..., which brings me to the next points ..
  • The BT, I feel, is on the faster side..
  • No braking effect...My passive returns, or even chops, typically land on the other side, in a nice sweet-spot for the opponent.
  • My passive blocks go back with little or no underspin, and are looped or slapped back, with complete disrespect .. :lol:
  • The blade + BT (OX) combo (read my signature), gives me no advantages against heavy loops... No dampening .. a lot of times, the balls the flies off the table..
  • I'm not sure, this is the right blade for BT

What type of blade (with BT) is recommended to achieve (atleast, in part) what I've mentioned in my original post.

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2019, 20:43 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Armstrong SH-I 1.8
BH: TSP Curl P3 Alpha R OX
Although I'm currently mostly using Hellfire the best I've found for blocking strong loops is P3aR. It is slow with somewhat soft pips that provide some dampening effect. It also provides very good reversal. Not particularly disruptive in the sense of weird balls and flight paths (maybe pips are not that long, somewhere between MP & LP) but as a consequence control is very high. Can push almost like inverted without pop ups.

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2. S&T Black & White / Armstrong SH-I 1.8 / Hellfire OX


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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2019, 20:50 
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I've tried lots of blades and finally settled on Tibhar defence plus which is reasonably priced.
If one of your existing blades is similar in speed that may do.
My main point is OX rubbers generally love lots of topspin when blocking and the main problem
I have is returning no pace/spin balls.


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 01:46 
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Dusty054 wrote:
Although I'm currently mostly using Hellfire the best I've found for blocking strong loops is P3aR. It is slow with somewhat soft pips that provide some dampening effect. It also provides very good reversal. Not particularly disruptive in the sense of weird balls and flight paths (maybe pips are not that long, somewhere between MP & LP) but as a consequence control is very high. Can push almost like inverted without pop ups.


Only heard of this LP, and that too not very often....Don't know anyone who plays with it (in the physical or digital realm) ... Never even looked into it, but now that you've made a mention of it, will certainly do so ... Thanks ...

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 01:54 
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I wonder why, no one yet, has recommend DG ..... ??

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 02:56 
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Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
FH: Spinny stuff
BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
You could always try a classic anti with dampening sponge, like butterfly super anti or nittaku best anti. Then you have some braking effect against loops, with about the same level of reversal. Just depends on your play style.

You should be able to block big loops with d.tecs though, once the skill is there. Or add in a chop/swipe block to help control the pace.

I've played with the p3ar also, and it plays very similarly to feint long 2 in ox. Neither reverses a ton of spin, but adds some stability to the ball... sacrificing 'disruption'.

So again, it comes down to how YOU want to play and which shots are the best. You then focus on the pip that accomplishes those, and adapt to the rest.

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Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 03:30 
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Blade: Grubba all+
FH: Moristo DF 1.2 :)))
BH: DG ox/Globe 979 ox
ootbs wrote:
I wonder why, no one yet, has recommend DG ..... ??


DG is highly recommended but if you tend to hit with your LP, chances are the rubber will last less than 2 months due to pips falling off. If you just block passively , then, durability is not an issue, however, by the 6th / 8th month the rubber becomes so weak , that some pip may fall off, especially at the edges in my case,... but I can carry on using it perfectly well . :rock:


Last edited by charmander defender on 08 Oct 2019, 03:47, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2019, 03:45 
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Blade: Grubba all+
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iskandar taib wrote:
charmander defender wrote:
Step 2 would be to tune the rubber,which of course THE ONLY positive thing I see is to take the mickey out of the ittf . :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , which I think they beautifully DESERVE !! .


1) How do you tune long pips? :lol:

2) Why do you think ITTF would care?

Iskandar


We all know how to cunningly modify pips :lol: - anybody can just read the experimental section on this forum or do their research on the internet . I don't really think the Ittf cares about amateur / recreational players modifying pips . Just mention the wonder LP will never be created with the current limitations. No discussion on this .

Just say the ITTF has not managed to be successful at making close to the table defence disappear.Those at higher divisions who want to survive do modify their pips- it is understandable as they live on TT - . Those amateur/ recreational players who do modify their pips just do it to take the mickey out of the ITTF and play the way they like , well , in some cases it is due to the ego macho man complex . :lol: :lol: :lol: , some people feel depressed if they lose .

With the new ball and the current limitations for lps, the close to the table player must reinvent themselves.The use of the inverted must be on the rise and keep mixing it up during the game .


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