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PostPosted: 03 May 2020, 18:01 
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dazzler wrote:
Try 388d ox the tips are smooth not ruffled like 388d-1,I've tried bomb talent ,388d-1,531a and control/effects are better with the slightly slower 388d .I once had it on a Wosik senso carbon and returns of a strong players high spin serves were ridiculously loaded with reversal/spin continuation that he could not cope,needs a slower blade for chopping.


I've tried the 388D on the XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon, and hated it .. I felt it was unplayable ... could not do anything consistently with it .. I love the XVT blade, and 388D LP ... I thought the slow'ish, less-grippy 388D would pair well with the Hinoki-Balsa, but wasn't the case for me ... For me, the grippier 388D-1 works well on this blade


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PostPosted: 03 May 2020, 18:26 
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unorthodox_lp-er wrote:
mart1nandersson wrote:
Excellent video! Jakub's forehand is very good but his chopping shows exactly why I wouldn't want such a slow LP. He nets an incredible amount of balls when he's under pressure. I'm waaaaay below his level but the same happens to me when using more "normal" slow LP rubbers like Troublemaker.


Now I understand why it's a LP for close to the table! :lol:
This leaves the feuerstich and Death. The Death is a lot more expensive where I live. I think I'll be satisfied with feuerstich though... otherwise I can return to BT.


Death is also a fairly slow rubber.


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PostPosted: 03 May 2020, 23:36 
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Blade: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon
FH: DHS TG3 Neo
BH: Bomb Talent ox
Then the choice is easy... feuerstich it is!
Have to wait some time though before being able to use it to its full extent.

Everybody, thanks a lot for your help.

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Variation in spin is a great thing...

Main bats:
Setup 1: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon, DHS TG3 Neo, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 2: Donic Waldner Senso UltraCarbon, DHS Hurricane II, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 3: Yinhe N9s, DHS G888, Dawei 388d-1 ox
Setup 4: Donic Epox Control, Yasaka Rising Dragon, Palio CK531A ox


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PostPosted: 04 May 2020, 15:18 
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Blade: Darker: Speed 90
FH: Butterfly: Dignics 09C
BH: Andro: Rasant Chaos Ox
Feuerstich is an interesting LP with distinct playing characteristics.
It's fast, very grippy, with firm pips. Its good for active play only. If you hit with your pips, do backhand flips and rolls, chop a lot and and into active block then its a good rubber. But its not very good for passive play. Its poor for passive blocks often resulting in pop up balls. It has little to no reversal or disruption/funk. Think of it as a fast version of BTY Feint 3

I think the area where this rubber really shines is hitting. You can hit quite hard with this LP. However because of the extra grip, hitting with this rubber isn't really very dangerous for the opponent. This rubber isn't like hellfire, d'tecs, dorneglanz or even 388d1 which were previously discussed on this thread. I haven't tried bomb talent sorry i cant compare.


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 04:41 
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Rob M wrote:
Feuerstich is an interesting LP with distinct playing characteristics.
It's fast, very grippy, with firm pips. Its good for active play only. If you hit with your pips, do backhand flips and rolls, chop a lot and and into active block then its a good rubber. But its not very good for passive play. Its poor for passive blocks often resulting in pop up balls. It has little to no reversal or disruption/funk. Think of it as a fast version of BTY Feint 3

I think the area where this rubber really shines is hitting. You can hit quite hard with this LP. However because of the extra grip, hitting with this rubber isn't really very dangerous for the opponent. This rubber isn't like hellfire, d'tecs, dorneglanz or even 388d1 which were previously discussed on this thread. I haven't tried bomb talent sorry i cant compare.


Then Feuerstich isn't what was requested at all. To answer a question that didn't receive an answer yet, yes the d'tecs is still lethal in the right hands. Some argue that similar LP's that are a bit slowwr are less dangerous and plenty of those are still lethal aswell. You can pick them if you can't handle the speed of d'tecs. But if you don't want big reversal and disrubtion, a grippy pip is great aswell if you are good at active strokes and spin variations while using similar looking strokes.

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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 06:37 
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Blade: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon
FH: DHS TG3 Neo
BH: Bomb Talent ox
Honestly, there is no perfect pip you can do everything with.

I'm glad to hear that Dtecs is still dangerous.

Yesterday, I've stuck a sheet of BT I had still laying around on my XVT and I quite like it. IMO, the combo is not too fast.

Feuerstich might just be what I need. I'm an active player... rarely use passive strokes.
I thought grippy LP's can give good doses of reversal when actively chopping, please tell me if I'm wrong.

I play from various distances to the table, both short, mid and long. Depends on the opponent.
Shortplay = wristplay with pips or real spinny topspin over the table with my Neo hurricane 3 8) .
Otherwise nice chops with both rubbers and looping with forehand.

FYI, I am quite a young player who moves a lot behind the table.

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Variation in spin is a great thing...

Main bats:
Setup 1: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon, DHS TG3 Neo, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 2: Donic Waldner Senso UltraCarbon, DHS Hurricane II, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 3: Yinhe N9s, DHS G888, Dawei 388d-1 ox
Setup 4: Donic Epox Control, Yasaka Rising Dragon, Palio CK531A ox


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 08:01 
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unorthodox_lp-er wrote:

Feuerstich might just be what I need. I'm an active player... rarely use passive strokes.
I thought grippy LP's can give good doses of reversal when actively chopping, please tell me if I'm wrong..


Sorry if I created confusion. I'm used to call LP's with reversal rubbers that create good reversal by themselves, not the ones that need active strokes to add more spin to the already existing spin. Since if you merely block a spinny ball with a grippy LP, the amount of spin is reduced greatly creating more of a low-spin ball. But perhaps that's not a common view?

Anyway I'm looking forward to reading how the Feuerstich turns out. :) I'm not into the grippier LPs but a friemd of mine likes it a lot.

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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 08:58 
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Carpe Noctem wrote:

Sorry if I created confusion. I'm used to call LP's with reversal rubbers that create good reversal by themselves, not the ones that need active strokes to add more spin to the already existing spin. Since if you merely block a spinny ball with a grippy LP, the amount of spin is reduced greatly creating more of a low-spin ball. But perhaps that's not a common view?


You have the definition of "reversal" totally right. If you're chopping a loop (or looping a chop) and generating active spin, that's spin-generation, not reversal. Reversal is a property possessed by slicker rubbers (such as low-friction pips and frictionless anti) to turn spin into its opposite spin simply by continuing the spin already on the ball (not getting in the way due to friction).

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 09:52 
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unorthodox_lp-er wrote:
Honestly, there is no perfect pip you can do everything with.

I'm glad to hear that Dtecs is still dangerous.

Yesterday, I've stuck a sheet of BT I had still laying around on my XVT and I quite like it. IMO, the combo is not too fast.

Feuerstich might just be what I need. I'm an active player... rarely use passive strokes.
I thought grippy LP's can give good doses of reversal when actively chopping, please tell me if I'm wrong.

I play from various distances to the table, both short, mid and long. Depends on the opponent.
Shortplay = wristplay with pips or real spinny topspin over the table with my Neo hurricane 3 8) .
Otherwise nice chops with both rubbers and looping with forehand.

FYI, I am quite a young player who moves a lot behind the table.



If you play an active style of game with Long pips you will probably benefit from an all round type of pip. IMO Saur and Troger Schmerz has an excellent balance between slip and grip. Allowing ease of most shots except passive blocking and still allowing for some disruption/funkiness. I find it very easy for chopping, hitting, bumps, rolls and active blocking. I found Schmerz a much better rubber then Feuerstich. Feuerstich is too one dimensaional

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTLWBa4zvo

Enjoy the vid.


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 16:45 
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Blade: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon
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BH: Bomb Talent ox
Thank you. Now I know I was actually wrong about what reversal means. Thought that active chopping meant active reversal, not spin-generation. Every day you learn something new :D

Rob M wrote:
If you play an active style of game with Long pips you will probably benefit from an all round type of pip. IMO Saur and Troger Schmerz has an excellent balance between slip and grip. Allowing ease of most shots except passive blocking and still allowing for some disruption/funkiness. I find it very easy for chopping, hitting, bumps, rolls and active blocking. I found Schmerz a much better rubber then Feuerstich. Feuerstich is too one dimensaional

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTLWBa4zvo

Enjoy the vid.


Schmerz seems very promising in your video! I'd seen it on Geblocktt, but it didn't really cross my mind that it'd maybe suit my type of play.

Could you explain a bit more about feuerstich being too one-dimensional? Which aspects of the game does and doesn't it really work well for?

_________________
Variation in spin is a great thing...

Main bats:
Setup 1: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon, DHS TG3 Neo, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 2: Donic Waldner Senso UltraCarbon, DHS Hurricane II, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 3: Yinhe N9s, DHS G888, Dawei 388d-1 ox
Setup 4: Donic Epox Control, Yasaka Rising Dragon, Palio CK531A ox


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 17:40 
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unorthodox_lp-er wrote:
Thank you. Now I know I was actually wrong about what reversal means. Thought that active chopping meant active reversal, not spin-generation. Every day you learn something new :D

Rob M wrote:
If you play an active style of game with Long pips you will probably benefit from an all round type of pip. IMO Saur and Troger Schmerz has an excellent balance between slip and grip. Allowing ease of most shots except passive blocking and still allowing for some disruption/funkiness. I find it very easy for chopping, hitting, bumps, rolls and active blocking. I found Schmerz a much better rubber then Feuerstich. Feuerstich is too one dimensaional

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTLWBa4zvo

Enjoy the vid.


Schmerz seems very promising in your video! I'd seen it on Geblocktt, but it didn't really cross my mind that it'd maybe suit my type of play.

Could you explain a bit more about feuerstich being too one-dimensional? Which aspects of the game does and doesn't it really work well for?



Feuerstich is a fast very grippy LP with a high throw. Its good for hitting no spin balls and doing light topspins. It can generate decent backspin on chops but you need to adjust for a noticeable high throw. It suits a hitting and chopping active style of play. It does not suit a pushblocker style of play as demonstrated by Olivier Mader who uses low grip LPs such as Talon. Feuerstich is poor for blocking due to its high grip but an active inverted style of block can be used. Feuerstich has poor reversal so its hard to attack backspin balls, it also has poor disruption/funk. If you chop and and hit a lot with your pips it may be worth while but i personally found it too grippy


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 18:39 
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Blade: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon
FH: DHS TG3 Neo
BH: Bomb Talent ox
Ah. Feuerstich seems too grippy then for now... is interesting for chopping and hitting. I only push serves or use my wrist against serves. Might be an interesting rubber when I improve my game or change my style a bit in the future.

Concluding everything I've read from all of you until now, Schmerz or Dtecs seems to be the best rubber to match my game. I think I'll try Schmerz first because it is cheaper (where I live) compared to Dtecs.
Keeping Feuerstich in mind seems a good idea for later.

If anybody has more suggestions, feel free to post replies.

_________________
Variation in spin is a great thing...

Main bats:
Setup 1: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon, DHS TG3 Neo, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 2: Donic Waldner Senso UltraCarbon, DHS Hurricane II, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 3: Yinhe N9s, DHS G888, Dawei 388d-1 ox
Setup 4: Donic Epox Control, Yasaka Rising Dragon, Palio CK531A ox


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 19:16 
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unorthodox_lp-er wrote:
Ah. Feuerstich seems too grippy then for now... is interesting for chopping and hitting. I only push serves or use my wrist against serves. Might be an interesting rubber when I improve my game or change my style a bit in the future.

Concluding everything I've read from all of you until now, Schmerz or Dtecs seems to be the best rubber to match my game. I think I'll try Schmerz first because it is cheaper (where I live) compared to Dtecs.
Keeping Feuerstich in mind seems a good idea for later.

If anybody has more suggestions, feel free to post replies.



Actually Schmerz and D'Tecs are VERY different LPs. The biggest difference is in terms of grip. D'Tecs is probably the lowest legal grip LP on the market, closely followed by Badman and Talon. In comparison Schmerz is an all round rubber with mid range grip. D'Tecs is a faster softer pip compared to Schmerz. D'Tec excels at service return, passive blocking, it can produce disruptive wobbling balls and has excellent reversal. I found hitting with D'Tecs to be difficult and inconsistent due to the low grip, however It is possible to attack/bump backspin balls with D'Tecs. Schmerz is much better at active play then D'Tecs, the added grip of schmerz aids in attacking no spin and light top spin balls. Aggressive bumps and attacking with schmerz is consistent and fun. The extra grip on schmerz allows you to add your own spin when chopping. D'Tecs suits a close to the table player who occasionally chops and hits whereas schmerz suits an active player who does a little bit of everything


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PostPosted: 05 May 2020, 20:55 
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Rob M wrote:
unorthodox_lp-er wrote:
Ah. Feuerstich seems too grippy then for now... is interesting for chopping and hitting. I only push serves or use my wrist against serves. Might be an interesting rubber when I improve my game or change my style a bit in the future.

Concluding everything I've read from all of you until now, Schmerz or Dtecs seems to be the best rubber to match my game. I think I'll try Schmerz first because it is cheaper (where I live) compared to Dtecs.
Keeping Feuerstich in mind seems a good idea for later.

If anybody has more suggestions, feel free to post replies.



Actually Schmerz and D'Tecs are VERY different LPs. The biggest difference is in terms of grip. D'Tecs is probably the lowest legal grip LP on the market, closely followed by Badman and Talon. In comparison Schmerz is an all round rubber with mid range grip. D'Tecs is a faster softer pip compared to Schmerz. D'Tec excels at service return, passive blocking, it can produce disruptive wobbling balls and has excellent reversal. I found hitting with D'Tecs to be difficult and inconsistent due to the low grip, however It is possible to attack/bump backspin balls with D'Tecs. Schmerz is much better at active play then D'Tecs, the added grip of schmerz aids in attacking no spin and light top spin balls. Aggressive bumps and attacking with schmerz is consistent and fun. The extra grip on schmerz allows you to add your own spin when chopping. D'Tecs suits a close to the table player who occasionally chops and hits whereas schmerz suits an active player who does a little bit of everything


Is the Schmerz similar to Feint Long 2? I liked that one very much for it's allround properties. I didn't stick with it mainly because I had to be so active in my strokes to make them lethal and it didn't have the reversal I was looking for... but it was very consistent and well placed balls could wreck havoc when preformed right. Personally I didn't find it more difficult to hit with the D'tecs compared to Feint Long 2 but that's probably because I'm good at only picking out the easy balls for offence with the pips. But I suppose I'd prefer something more like Feint Long 2 if I wanted to attack on more varying occassions.

But what I don't get is that above was mentioned that the grippiness of the Feuerstich makes it difficult to attack backspin. Usually the grippier the LP, the easier I can attack backspin... maybe I'm weird. :|

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PostPosted: 06 May 2020, 03:04 
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Blade: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon
FH: DHS TG3 Neo
BH: Bomb Talent ox
I've just re-watched the video of Schmerz (ox) from Geblocktt.
It almost seems the perfect pip for my game. I'm looking for a more active type of play. As said before, I do not rely on reversal made by blocks.
I think that Dtecs won't have enough grip, and attacking difficulties are a real con for me.

https://youtu.be/s63revT_4SA

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Variation in spin is a great thing...

Main bats:
Setup 1: XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon, DHS TG3 Neo, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 2: Donic Waldner Senso UltraCarbon, DHS Hurricane II, Bomb Talent ox
Setup 3: Yinhe N9s, DHS G888, Dawei 388d-1 ox
Setup 4: Donic Epox Control, Yasaka Rising Dragon, Palio CK531A ox


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