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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2021, 10:46 
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fazer227 wrote:
kevgeomcc wrote:
...
But...man, the FH is just a bit too slow for me. *he says, in a whiny voice* (Daddy, I want a pony! A pony with a ripping FH!) But perhaps it's not U...nicorn? Perhaps, it's Me... Like, y'know? I'm coming from a thick, light balsa carbon Nexy Labyrinthos (and DG or Dtecs) withTenergy 05/MXP/Fastarc G1 on the FH. It's a setup I try to leave and yet, like that partner who is a bit crazy and out of control, dangerous, but sometimes too dangerous, it just keeps luring me back with it's fizz and zip and power. And compared to the hot but slightly psycho Labyrinthos, my FH shots with the Unicorn were literally dribbling over the net. (Alright, not dribbling, but...) Sure, every one of my FH shots also went on the table, steadily, without fuss--the control is awesome--but a whole lot more than usual were coming back with interest! I don't think I hit a FH winner last night once. And playing choppers/defenders? Last week I had to remove my arm at the shoulder and stick it in a bucket full of ice. Again, every BH push went on, I could play the angles with ease, looping was...nice, easy, comfortable...but harmless.

...


Kev, have you tried the Hellfire X with the Labyrinthos?

I did and I felt it was harmless and hard to control on the Laby. It is totally tamed or enhanced, you could say, by the Unicorn. In fact, I am done with the Labyrinthos I think. Really over her this time! No, really... I loved that blade for a time--more during the cell ball days--but am looking for more control to play a bit further off the table. I have one FL, virtually new model left to sell if you or anyone is interested. It's a great blade with a fast FH, and none I've tried pairs better with Dtecs or Dornenglanz.


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2021, 17:35 
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Blade: ]Zhang Jike Blue Dragon
FH: Xiom Vega Euro DF Max
BH: SauerTroger Hellfire X OX
I like the Hellfire X in OX. I have put it in a number of blades including the Unicorn.

Blade-wise I’ve settled on the Butterfly Innershield Layer ZLF. For blocking and defensive “touch” play the wood is soft and controllable. For harder chopping and attacking (I love attacking with the Hellfire) the carbon layer provides a crisp snappiness.

The same snappiness carries over beautifully to my forehand where I use Xiom Vega Europe DF in Max, which is a normal enough rubber with a pretty slow sponge, though I’m sure any inverted rubber would be fine.

Whether I’m flat hitting my forehand or using a whipping action to loop, this “slow fast” blade is awesome.

I’ve also tried the Hellfire and Xiom on the butterfly Zhang Jike original Blue Dragon blade. This setup was a little over my head - just slightly too fast for me. The Innershield has a similar feel in the way the carbon layer works with the wood, but it’s a little easier to control.

Recently I’ve really been just aggressively attacking with the Hellfire X OX sheet, and one gripe I have is the rubber doesn’t last long. It’s gossamer stuff, and it seems like I may just be asking too much when I’m attacking with it. I destroyed it in maybe 20 hours of hard play. Just put a new sheet on an hour ago.

I have four more sheets of the Hellfire X to use. After that I MAY try a TSP Curl (not sure which and open to suggestions!) to see how it holds up to my new and improved more aggressive LP style.


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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2021, 08:23 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Armstrong SH-I 1.8
BH: S&T Hellfire X OX
bmoney0000 wrote:
I like the Hellfire X in OX. I have put it in a number of blades including the Unicorn.
I have four more sheets of the Hellfire X to use. After that I MAY try a TSP Curl (not sure which and open to suggestions!) to see how it holds up to my new and improved more aggressive LP style.


I used to use TSP Curl P3aR. Then Hellfire and now Hellfire X. My backhand game is mostly close to the table blocking and pushing. P3aR is great for that, minimal friction, slow and safe with good reversal. Hellfire is similar, not quite as safe but with a little more disruption. With Hellfire X I’m trying to attack more and find it much more effective for that. I don’t know which of the Curl series would be best for attacking but P3aR is not so good being very slow with very little grip. Curl P-H might be a good one to try. It’s also a little slow, but harder and grippier. I suspect it would be very good for attacking on an offensive blade.

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PostPosted: 20 Jan 2021, 23:47 
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Blade: Baricade
FH: Butterfly Super Anti
BH: Lion International
I have 2 setups that I'm concentrating more on recently both with Unicorn and Hellfire X.

1) The Dignics 09C
2) The Hurricane III national but boosted. I have not boosted it again since about 5 months ago and playing approximately 6 hours a week in total between both setups.

I definitely prefer the Dignics due to the grippy surface and really getting my weight behind the shots ( when I'm in position). The Hurricane is also good but since its an older rubber it has lost a little sting but definitely fast enough for me.

I really can't compare these setups against a number of previously used options because the benefits are ridiculously mesmerising to me. One thing I do a lot is use the live rubber on my backhand and the pips on the forehand which suits my style perfectly. None the less the versatility means all options are on the table which I am thoroughly enjoying. As I stated in a previous post the only down side is the durability of the Hellfire X. I just attack too much which is the main problem.


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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2021, 00:57 
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Blade: DMS The wall
FH: Globe 999 1.5
BH: Kamikaze OX
DG poor durability, Hellfire X poor durability,Tm poor durability,.....if you think about it ,all the super mega fantastic new pips have poor durability,..... why?...$$$$$$$$$ whereas Dawei d and -d1, Bomb Talent,.... classic forever pips have outstanding durability and with this plastic ball they work great.You just need to get the right combination.In this era, the blade is paramount. No wonder Def Attack is always looking for the holy grail of the blades :lol: :lol: :lol:

I realised that if you play with an all + blade , you need a fast rubber on the FH if you want to beat a very high level player.Why? because in my club I have the opportunity to train with this kind of players.We need MORE SPEED IN SERVES and with FH attacks.If you play with a fast blade then, the fh rubber can be slower.

Against very good players, who play well against pips , we need more speed on the ball in serves and attacks to mess with their timing because if they are in position, no block, no fh attack will harm them ..


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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2021, 01:20 
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Blade: D. M. S. The Wall Def-
FH: S&T Secret Flow Chop
BH: Spectre OX
That's the Dawei 388D?

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PostPosted: 01 May 2021, 14:04 
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Location: La Canada (near Los Angeles)
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Blade: ]Zhang Jike Blue Dragon
FH: Xiom Vega Euro DF Max
BH: SauerTroger Hellfire X OX
charmander defender wrote:
DG poor durability, Hellfire X poor durability,Tm poor durability,.....if you think about it ,all the super mega fantastic new pips have poor durability.



I switched from the Hellfire X to the Tibhar Grass D.Tecs, first in OX and now in 0.5.

I attack a lot with the pips and was ripping the Hellfire X to pieces after about a week. Pips falling out, etc. I have had zero of this with the Grass DTecs. And adding the 0.5 sponge massively increased my control on attacks while seeming not to subtract control or disruption on blocks.

I use the Butterfly Innershield Layer ZLF which I love (and switched to from the Unicorn). Forehand I use Yasaka Razka 7 Soft.

If you don’t mind vibration, and perceive it as “feeling” and not as noise, then this setup is a great one for intermediate players like me (rated 1909).


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2021, 07:34 
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Bmoney, are you still using D.TecS 0.5? Your post, along with some great YouTube videos below, have inspired me to order it in acid green :rock: Lots of practice ahead to be sure! :lol:
Check out this guy Micchan using D.TecS 0.5 with a Genshu, a thin, 7-ply all wood blade:
https://youtu.be/N4ScIylv0FY
https://youtu.be/N9K_AVcy0vU
https://youtu.be/acLyxAq5nkU

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WRM Gokushu 2 cpen Yasaka Rakza 7 1.8 Sauer&Troger Monkey OX
DMS The Wall cpen Loki Rxton 3 2.1 Tibhar Grass D.TecS OX
DMS The Wall cpen Donic Baracuda 2.0 Tibhar Grass D.TecS 0.5
Dr. N Matador Xiom Vega Pro 1.8 Barna SG Soft Green 0.8


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2021, 07:25 
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Blade: Turbo 82
FH: Victas 401
BH: Acid Green OX
charmander defender wrote:
DG poor durability, Hellfire X poor durability,Tm poor durability,.....if you think about it ,all the super mega fantastic new pips have poor durability,..... why?...$$$$$$$$$ whereas Dawei d and -d1, Bomb Talent,.... classic forever pips have outstanding durability and with this plastic ball they work great.You just need to get the right combination.In this era, the blade is paramount. No wonder Def Attack is always looking for the holy grail of the blades :lol: :lol: :lol:

I realised that if you play with an all + blade , you need a fast rubber on the FH if you want to beat a very high level player.Why? because in my club I have the opportunity to train with this kind of players.We need MORE SPEED IN SERVES and with FH attacks.If you play with a fast blade then, the fh rubber can be slower.

Against very good players, who play well against pips , we need more speed on the ball in serves and attacks to mess with their timing because if they are in position, no block, no fh attack will harm them ..


The speed is not produced by the blade but by the player. If you play against opponents who are experienced versus long pips you have to vary a lot with lp attacks, lp chop blocks, placement and for sure also with switching lp to inverted side and back. Stability is most important and this is granted by medium fast blades or better slow blades.

If you go for a combination fast blade / lps then you'll dominate oponents that cannot play versus lps more spectacular than using slow blade / lps. But you would also win with a slow blade. If you play with the fast combination versus experienced players some parts will work better but in total the price is too high - decrease of control, stability. You will maximise your unforced errors on bad days with the fast combination.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2021, 23:08 
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Blade: DMS The wall
FH: Globe 999 1.5
BH: Kamikaze OX
I do agree with you.Every post has their context and time.Now I believe a slower blade and a versatile pip yields more results,especially at the veterans category.If you are consistent enough you will end up winning most games.
However, at high levels it may be necessary to have a faster setup : off - / off.By high level I mean the first and second league in your country.

Also, it depends on the kind of pip you use and the strategy : close,mid or far away from the table.


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2021, 07:13 
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Blade: Turbo 82
FH: Victas 401
BH: Acid Green OX
There are not many players with pips or antis in the Austrian league. So I just can tell about CWX who still plays rather successfully. I think everybody knows his style and the rather slow blade he uses. Unfortunately there are no significant other players with "material".

Just one observation: in men's top leagues I didn't find lp players close the table. They all defend in general from the distance. Reason imho is that men are physically stronger and able to perform fast and spinny top spins close to the table that are impossible to block with lps. And they all use slow blades. Def- to All+.
In women leagues this is different as only a few players are physically that strong. So players like Manika Batra are able to play successfully with eg Dtecs close to the table. And then there are veterans like Ni Xialian. :)

With short pips it's very different as you can chose a broad spectrum from bh def play from the distance like Hou Yingchao to Thor's hammer like Falck.


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2021, 16:29 
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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso
FH: Mark V HPS 2.0
BH: Dtecs OX
Ganz Opak wrote:
Just one observation: in men's top leagues I didn't find lp players close the table. They all defend in general from the distance. Reason imho is that men are physically stronger and able to perform fast and spinny top spins close to the table that are impossible to block with lps. And they all use slow blades. Def- to All+.
In women leagues this is different as only a few players are physically that strong. So players like Manika Batra are able to play successfully with eg Dtecs close to the table. And then there are veterans like Ni Xialian. :)



The only one I can think of in men's world ranking (although he was around 500 I'm not sure what he is now) is Abbasi Amirreza with Piranja OX using Primorac OFF- blade. Although I've seen the handle looks the same on the OFF version too so not 100% sure which one he uses.

But he is still considered one of the highest playing lvls in the world. Other than him I don't know anybody else

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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2021, 00:16 
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Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
FH: Spinny stuff
BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
Ganz Opak wrote:
There are not many players with pips or antis in the Austrian league. So I just can tell about CWX who still plays rather successfully. I think everybody knows his style and the rather slow blade he uses. Unfortunately there are no significant other players with "material".

Just one observation: in men's top leagues I didn't find lp players close the table. They all defend in general from the distance. Reason imho is that men are physically stronger and able to perform fast and spinny top spins close to the table that are impossible to block with lps. And they all use slow blades. Def- to All+.
In women leagues this is different as only a few players are physically that strong. So players like Manika Batra are able to play successfully with eg Dtecs close to the table. And then there are veterans like Ni Xialian. :)

With short pips it's very different as you can chose a broad spectrum from bh def play from the distance like Hou Yingchao to Thor's hammer like Falck.



I think it's more than possible for them to block with pips. You can see batra do this in mixed doubles vs men for example. Doing it consistently... that is another question!

It seems the real problem is men are not only more powerful, but FASTER as well! They can reach the long pip balls and send back a blaster shot to difficult angles. This puts, at the highest levels, the pip user at a big disadvantage since they are effectively stuck playing defense and hoping for a miss. Something that is not overly prone to happen... The balls are hit too quickly to step around - although they could twiddle, this approach is apparently too difficult to master vs the quality of incoming balls. Reaction times, adjustments, etc.

There are pip users in lower leagues, where I would argue the men hit just as hard -- but not near as often or consistently. The stefan K. guy has upset some players in the top 100-200+s for example. I'm sure there are other cases also, yet again... the frequency and consistency is so lacking they are not worth noting overall.

Basically, I see it as being a lack of applying pressure - rather than being too hard or difficult to block with the pips. You can block it, sure... but who cares? They're just going to hammer another one at you until you can't!

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Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2021, 01:24 
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Blade: Turbo 82
FH: Victas 401
BH: Acid Green OX
Yes, Manika Batra played very well in those mixed doubles. I also viewed her vids cause I totally love her unique style.
But as far as I have analyzed the lp block is just an emergency stroke of Manika. This means neither this stroke is used to win the point nor prepares the point. It's just a filler, like the lp chop from the distance.
In case she has to block with her bh Manika absolutely prefers to switch to her Tenergy 05 where she can counter or block hard, mostly long line.

In today's training session I tried to review slow blade vs fast blade.
The slow blade was Dr. Neubauer Barricade with black Vs>401 1.5 and green Dtecs OX green. The fast blade was Rendler Turbo 82 with red Vs>401 1.5 and black Kamikaze OX.

Slow: easy to place the ball with the lp. Counter versus backspin no problem. Certain amount of disturbing effect, certain amount of spin reversal. Shots on slow and/or higher balls no problem, with placement and certain amount of speed. Chop blocks easy to play, short balls easy to play. Takes time til the point is won.

Fast: placement no as easy, especially on fast balls. Counters versus backspin possible but need care and good position to the table not to overshoot the table. Higher amount of disturbing effect due to more speed, certain amount of spin reversal. Shots on high/slow balls no problem but good timing necessary. Quite high speed possible. Chop blocks hard to play, short balls just when incoming slow ball. Rallies significantly shorter.

Although Dtecs and Kamikaze have quite different pimple ratios I like their similar behaviour of chewing gum effect - acceleration and disturbing effects.

The main difference i felt is the fh as with the Neubauer i love to pivot while with the Rendler i love to shoot. 8)


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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2022, 05:39 
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Blade: Sanwei F3 Pro (=TB ALC)
FH: Tibhar MX-D max
BH: Hellfire X/Dtecs ox
kevgeomcc wrote:
Oh, I don't know. I think what I'm saying here, basically, is that in the Unicorn I think I've found the holy grail for LP bh blocking/attacking/control and yet the FH leaves me (again, literally) flat...yearning for something more dangerous?

So, my question is what, exactly? I don't know...does anyone have any suggestions? What is the fastest FH rubber on the market? Is there another blade like the Unicorn with a punchier FH?

I played today first time with Unicorn, Tibhar Aurus max and Hellfire X ox. Like you said, the BH feels very nice and disturbance with weird trajectories are there. :clap:

On the other hand I had similar problems with FH: it's too slow and I don't like feel of it. :( (Couple of days ago I lost against a player with similar Unicorn combination - he was hitting ripping forehand winners from left and right... :swear:)


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