OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have made 3 setups, and then set it up against each other.

All setups have 100% same forehand and same backhand the only thing there is change, is the blade.
The three blade is:
Dr Neubauer - Matador off-
Der Materialspezialist - The Wall def-
Sauer & Tröger - Unicorn all-

Forehand:
Stiga DNA Pro S, 1.9mm, red, Glued with Andro Free glue.

Backhand:
Sauer & Tröger Hellfire X, ox, black, glued with adhesive foil fom Der Materialspezialist.

My playstyle is a combi of def and off, where a lot of my game is disruptive. I try to damage my opponents game, and frustrated her game.
I love spinreversal more than anything else, and i love the control when i have to take service.
Then i also love the control in the game, when i can control my opponent, and i can build the game when i like it.
And of course... i love to go back, and then chop again, and again, and again with a lot of control, and effect.

I have played a lot with a guy who have about 2000 rating in Denmark, and is a good clean looper in both forehand and backhand.
Then i also have played a bit against a Newgy Robopong 2050, when i can see the spinreversal, when i return a heavy spinny ball, and then see it bounch back again.

Dr Neubabuer - Matador.
This blade give SO much spinreversal, SO much.
It is also very fast, and very hard, and then the control isnt there.
I think this blade is excellent when you have to only play on spinreversal, and then just laying the ball back.
The forehand here is nice, and have the "modern" speed. So there is nothing to say her... it works.
1-100
Speed: 90
Control: 70
Spinreversal: 100

Der Materialspezialst - The Wall.
This is a slow blade, and it is very soft, and take the speed off the ball on every stroke.
The spinreversal is good on this blade, but not at all so good at the Matador. -When the matador has 100% Spinreversal, this The Wall has about 60%.
On the chop away from the table, and on the active block close to the table, the spinreversal go higher and we are now talking about 70%.
The control is so high on this blade... soooo high. It is surely because of the low speed. You can chop with so much control, and place the ball exactly where you want.
On blocks close to the table the control is also very high, and you can control and feel the ball very well, and even the hard spinny loops, you can block short and low to the net.
Forehand on this blade is also slow, and high control. It takes me a long time to make a good loop with this forehand, because of the ultra low speed.
1-100
Speed: 40
Control: 100
Spinreversal: 70

Sauer & Tröger - Unicorn
Then we have the unicorn. And a very strange blade. I have not seen this treefibre used on a allround blade before.
The blade is a bit hard, and have a high sound when i bounch the ball on the blade without rubbers.
But in the game, this blade change character. It is like a soft allround blade, with massive control.
The spinreversal is very close to the Matador, but with slower speed and more control.
The passive blocks are easy to do, and the active blocks make so much spinreversal.
On the chops away from the table, it has the same control as The Wall. Very easy to chop with, and massive spinreversal.
Forehand on this blade is also like the Matador... the "modern" forehand speed is here, and it is easy to loop with, and make a lot of spin.
One thing this blade is better at, than the two others, is attack... it is much, much easier to attack on underspin, and highballs. So crispy and good speed and control.
I think this is the best blade for Long OX pips i ever tried... and i promise, i have really tried a lot. I think the hard surface on this Unicorn gives so much to the pips.
1-100
Speed: 70 - it feels like it has more speed in the forehand, than the backhand. Think the blade absorb the speed on OX rubbers? Then i will say Forehand 85, Backhand 60.
Control: 95
Spinreversal: 98

I hope this gives a lot of information about these blades.
The time i have trained is about 3x3hours with some intensive times, and then with some fun times, where i have tried some things.
I think this blade will be a legend, exactly like the Nittaku Shake Defence.
4 of my training buddies have now bought this blade, and waiting on it will arrive.

Best regards.
Morten Nissen
Denmark

Thank you for an excellent comparative review of Hellfire X on three types of blades with a different speed rating.
I obtained Hellfire and Unicorn somewhere in June once Table Tennis 11 had a stock on it.
I tested Hellfire X on a few dozen of different blades including Matador and based on my personal opinion
and an opinion of my mates who are a skilled users of OX long pimples the combination Hellfire X with Unicorn is the best
set up for an all-round application of long pimples (passive block, chop block,
chopping away from the table and attack by hitting or lifting) in the last 10 years.
I can sign your every word regarding Unicorn blade. It is a real gem

I can't speak to the Unicorn blade because it's too heavy for me, but I would say that the S&T Hellfire X (OX) on the Nittaku Shake Defence is also a great combination.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

I have no doubts that a set up with Unicorn (weight: ~ 86 g; dimensions: 153 x 151 mm) is sufficiently lighter than set up with NSD blade (weight: ~85 g;
dimensions: 168 x 162 mm) due to an extra weight of a larger cut of rubbers coverings on NSD.
The Unicorn is a stiff blade as NSD but has a much harder outer ply made out of mansonia wood (yanka hardness 1290). Outer ply of NSD made of Hinoki
(yanka hardness 510). Same time Unicorn has a better dampening, reversal and lover speed on the backend. But forehand works well with any tensor rubber.
I tested Tibhar Evolution MX-S 1.9mm which on Unicorn has nice control and offensive level of speed. My friend plays boosted Hurricane 3 National which
provides everything what this rubber provides on an offensive blade.
TT, once you will try Unicorn with Hellfire X then you won't look back.

The NSD is not 85 grams. It's in the high 70s at most. (According to these sources, it's around 79 grams: https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng ... efence-st; https://pingpongshop.eu/table-tennis-bl ... defence-st)

Also, I prefer oversized blades. This is especially the case because the ABS ball reacts very strongly to slight sidespin, so I find there is a need for the extra surface area to create a margin of error.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

I played an opponent at a tournament this weekend who used Hellfire X. It did seem like a good all around pip. I wouldn't say that it had a lot of spin reversal. However, his control with it was very good, he could attack with it well, and it was tricky to get the proper timing against it. Reminded me of being similar to something like Dr Neubauer Gangster. I don't know what blade he was using.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

I am trying Hellfire X on S&T Black & White. I have had some tennis elbow and Unicorn would be too heavy for me. Black & White is very light. At present I still like the old Hellfire better, it seems to have more control. But I have had very little practice since Covid and I will keep trying Hellfire X as I start to play more.

_________________
2. S&T Black & White / Armstrong SH-I 1.8 / TSP Curl P3 Alpha R OX

The official long pips rap from the folks that brought you the Hellfire X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho_EDLT ... r%C3%B6ger

Wish I understood German ... but even if you don't, you can tell this is good.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX

This is HILARIOUS!!!

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

has anyone tried Hellfire X on a Firestarter?

_________________
The Dark Side: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda

Ok, a review/question/rant: I am (or have been) a roughly 2000 level LP user--attack with FH, block with LPs and occasionally, more recently, twiddle to BH particularly receive serve etc. I've tried loads of different blades and LPs, play league and tournaments, usually get out of my group, get knocked out in the last 32 or, rarely, last 16, kind of player. I'm no expert but I know (occasionally!) what I'm doing with the ol' LP game.

And...I've been using the Unicorn & Hellfire X Ox combo (w/Nittaku Fastarc G1 or MXP on FH) for the past few weeks (and I won't be using it again for at least a month as we've entered a full, hard lockdown this evening...) . I've played no proper, competetive matches, obviously, but training matches against good players, many much better than myself, some weaker, the usual. Overall, maybe 10 sessions, a few of them coaching/sparring sessions...and I really don't know what to think of this set up.

First of all, let me start by saying this of the Unicorn and Hellfire X ox combo: it is one of the most controlled combinations for blocking and attacking with LPs (as said in the reviews above above) that I've ever used. Virtually every block goes back, the attacking pushes stay on the table etc. Attacking vs backspin or even sometimes countering against weak topspin is a dream, though somewhat slow. This combo is really, really lovely to use and can be dangerous. The Hellfire X is not as dangerous as Dtecs or Dornenglanz--more anon--but causes some trouble on blocks due to being hard to read. It doesn't give half the backspin of either of them but it is not as regular either, and this causes problems of its own and should be lauded. It seems to me, and to my playing partners, that Hellfire X sends back no spin sometimes and heavy backspin other times and it's difficult to predict when. Regardless, the Unicorn blade (IMO) is key. This blade rocks.

And here's why I think this: I tried the Unicorn with Dornenglanz ox last night and it was much more dangerous. The control was still there but the added speed of the DG--and it's general funkiness--really brought out the qualities of the blade. Everything went on the table. I mean everything. Ok, some of the emergency, out of position, blocks that DG and Dtecs get back on a fast blade weren't there but everything else went back. The Unicorn is a truly brilliant blocking blade. It seems to absorb pace but is crisp enough to further the backspin on the return. This is a really rare and lovely combination of features. As someone in a review somewhere else said, it has balsa like qualities but has no balsa in it?

So, an absolute stormer of a blocking blade that I agree will be a legend like the NSD in the future, but...

But...man, the FH is just a bit too slow for me. *he says, in a whiny voice* (Daddy, I want a pony! A pony with a ripping FH!) But perhaps it's not U...nicorn? Perhaps, it's Me... Like, y'know? I'm coming from a thick, light balsa carbon Nexy Labyrinthos (and DG or Dtecs) withTenergy 05/MXP/Fastarc G1 on the FH. It's a setup I try to leave and yet, like that partner who is a bit crazy and out of control, dangerous, but sometimes too dangerous, it just keeps luring me back with it's fizz and zip and power. And compared to the hot but slightly psycho Labyrinthos, my FH shots with the Unicorn were literally dribbling over the net. (Alright, not dribbling, but...) Sure, every one of my FH shots also went on the table, steadily, without fuss--the control is awesome--but a whole lot more than usual were coming back with interest! I don't think I hit a FH winner last night once. And playing choppers/defenders? Last week I had to remove my arm at the shoulder and stick it in a bucket full of ice. Again, every BH push went on, I could play the angles with ease, looping was...nice, easy, comfortable...but harmless.

I'm telling ye, I got a dilemma here, folks. The Unicorn has BH for at the table defense you could settle down and live the rest of your life with...but the thrill of the FH is just...it's just...gone?

Now, I'm aware that with training, and weight lifting and high doses of HGH I can likely up the speed of my FH attacks somewhat, and that by sacrificing some control and using a fast set up I can get out of jail by sticking the bat out and the ball will go back with pace but will always let me down in the crunch when stability and not pizzaz is what you need (like, when playing a Premier league looper or during a global pandemic...). Oh, I don't know. I think what I'm saying here, basically, is that in the Unicorn I think I've found the holy grail for LP bh blocking/attacking/control and yet the FH leaves me (again, literally) flat...yearning for something more dangerous?

So, my question is what, exactly? I don't know...does anyone have any suggestions? What is the fastest FH rubber on the market? Is there another blade like the Unicorn with a punchier FH? Will I ever play TT again anyway? Should I lay off the lockdown drinks? Do high doses of HGH kill Coronavirus? Someone, let me know! Stay safe all of ye!

But...man, the FH is just a bit too slow for me. *he says, in a whiny voice* (Daddy, I want a pony! A pony with a ripping FH!) But perhaps it's not U...nicorn? Perhaps, it's Me... Like, y'know? I'm coming from a thick, light balsa carbon Nexy Labyrinthos (and DG or Dtecs) withTenergy 05/MXP/Fastarc G1 on the FH. It's a setup I try to leave and yet, like that partner who is a bit crazy and out of control, dangerous, but sometimes too dangerous, it just keeps luring me back with it's fizz and zip and power. And compared to the hot but slightly psycho Labyrinthos, my FH shots with the Unicorn were literally dribbling over the net. (Alright, not dribbling, but...) Sure, every one of my FH shots also went on the table, steadily, without fuss--the control is awesome--but a whole lot more than usual were coming back with interest! I don't think I hit a FH winner last night once. And playing choppers/defenders? Last week I had to remove my arm at the shoulder and stick it in a bucket full of ice. Again, every BH push went on, I could play the angles with ease, looping was...nice, easy, comfortable...but harmless.

I'm telling ye, I got a dilemma here, folks. The Unicorn has BH for at the table defense you could settle down and live the rest of your life with...but the thrill of the FH is just...it's just...gone?

Now, I'm aware that with training, and weight lifting and high doses of HGH I can likely up the speed of my FH attacks somewhat, and that by sacrificing some control and using a fast set up I can get out of jail by sticking the bat out and the ball will go back with pace but will always let me down in the crunch when stability and not pizzaz is what you need (like, when playing a Premier league looper or during a global pandemic...). Oh, I don't know. I think what I'm saying here, basically, is that in the Unicorn I think I've found the holy grail for LP bh blocking/attacking/control and yet the FH leaves me (again, literally) flat...yearning for something more dangerous?

So, my question is what, exactly? I don't know...does anyone have any suggestions? What is the fastest FH rubber on the market? Is there another blade like the Unicorn with a punchier FH? Will I ever play TT again anyway? Should I lay off the lockdown drinks? Do high doses of HGH kill Coronavirus? Someone, let me know! Stay safe all of ye! [/quote]

I tried Tibhar Evolution MXS 1.9, black on Unicorn and Hellfire X (backend). This combo was fast for any attacking shot. I think the hardness of MXP in combination with a stiff and hard Unicorn provides a little of catapult and a dead feel of the ball. My friend plays fast topspins, blocks and smashes with
a hard Dignics 09C so there is a matter of individual technique as well.

For some reason the Dignics 09C's properties fit the Unicorn very well, even for defensive play. However, it is somewhat heavy, so in 1.9 it is a good alternative for speed, control and a lot of spin.

Thanks redspot and annakin. Really appreciate the tips. Depending on how long this lockdown is, I may even be able to buy some Dignics with the money I'll save not going out!

I tried MXS before and didn't like it, compared to MXP, but like you say, perhaps it didn't fit the blade I was using. Cheers!

Kev, have you tried the Hellfire X with the Labyrinthos?

_________________
The Dark Side: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda