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Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
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Author:  redspot [ 02 Nov 2022, 19:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Roy wrote:
kevgeomcc wrote:
Oh, I don't know. I think what I'm saying here, basically, is that in the Unicorn I think I've found the holy grail for LP bh blocking/attacking/control and yet the FH leaves me (again, literally) flat...yearning for something more dangerous?

So, my question is what, exactly? I don't know...does anyone have any suggestions? What is the fastest FH rubber on the market? Is there another blade like the Unicorn with a punchier FH?

I played today first time with Unicorn, Tibhar Aurus max and Hellfire X ox. Like you said, the BH feels very nice and disturbance with weird trajectories are there. :clap:

On the other hand I had similar problems with FH: it's too slow and I don't like feel of it. :( (Couple of days ago I lost against a player with similar Unicorn combination - he was hitting ripping forehand winners from left and right... :swear:)


Tibhar Aurus is not a good match with Unicorn. An excellent combo played by me is with Dignics 09C. Generally Unicorn matches well with hard fast and tacky rubbers. The tensors like Donic Blue Grip will play well on Unicorn. My team mate loves Donic Blue Grip R1 on Unicorn.
Author:  Roy [ 02 Nov 2022, 20:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
redspot wrote:
Roy wrote:
kevgeomcc wrote:
Oh, I don't know. I think what I'm saying here, basically, is that in the Unicorn I think I've found the holy grail for LP bh blocking/attacking/control and yet the FH leaves me (again, literally) flat...yearning for something more dangerous?

So, my question is what, exactly? I don't know...does anyone have any suggestions? What is the fastest FH rubber on the market? Is there another blade like the Unicorn with a punchier FH?

I played today first time with Unicorn, Tibhar Aurus max and Hellfire X ox. Like you said, the BH feels very nice and disturbance with weird trajectories are there. :clap:

On the other hand I had similar problems with FH: it's too slow and I don't like feel of it. :( (Couple of days ago I lost against a player with similar Unicorn combination - he was hitting ripping forehand winners from left and right... :swear:)


Tibhar Aurus is not a good match with Unicorn. An excellent combo played by me is with Dignics 09C. Generally Unicorn matches well with hard fast and tacky rubbers. The tensors like Donic Blue Grip will play well on Unicorn. My team mate loves Donic Blue Grip R1 on Unicorn.

Thanks, that's valuable information I was hoping for. :up: Aurus works well with my Joola CWX blade. In Unicorn Aurus is too spin sensitive, too dead in passive play and inaccurate in top spin play. Ripping FH is possible, but half power loops seem to be too easy for the opponent. Dignics might be too expensive, but I will be looking for harder alternative to Aurus.
Author:  Roy [ 21 Nov 2022, 06:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
redspot wrote:
Tibhar Aurus is not a good match with Unicorn. An excellent combo played by me is with Dignics 09C. Generally Unicorn matches well with hard fast and tacky rubbers. The tensors like Donic Blue Grip will play well on Unicorn. My team mate loves Donic Blue Grip R1 on Unicorn.

I bought the Joola Golden Tango PS max for the FH to go with Unicorn blade and HFx ox. It's a nice match for modern defence with great control, if some added spin sensitivity don't bother you. JGT PS has very high arc, but loops dip well.

Strenghts of JGT PS are 1) Underspins, very spinny and easy to control, 2) Snake type of tricky sidespin lifts :rofl: , 3) Fishing, good control and huge kick from the table, 4) Conterloops, grabs the ball well with long dwell time and loops dip nicely and 5) Hou Yingchao style FH hook-loops are possible with best sidespin that I have seen.

Possible problems of JGT PS are 1) High arc shots like blocks or half speed loops don't pressure opponent enough 2) It's spin sensitive and sometimes it's difficult to to close the blade enough 3) Overall speed is like all+, so you are better to use powerfull chinese whole arm loop, 4) Half armspeed shots might be too easy for the opponent, 5 Direct shots like smashes and drives might not be most reliable weapons.

So, if you like spinny loops, defending, strong underspins, controlled plays and sidespins JGT PS is good for you, but if you are more bang bang style player who likes blocking and speed more than spin, JGT PS might not be right for you.
Author:  Roy [ 08 Dec 2023, 16:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Testing time of the year and return to Unicorn blade among others. Some observations:

- Unicorn still feels best blade for ox pips play. Right speed, good disturbance, easy passive play, low trajectory and nice active possibilities.
- Dtecs ox fits perfectly for Unicorn. I tested also Dornenglanz, but it was inferior, but decent.
- FH side of Unicorn is still bit of mystery. MXP was quite decent in looping, but for serves or controlled at the table plays were not ideal. Hurricane 3 Neo behaves strangely. Unicorn takes the sting out of Hurricane and spin is reduced. Speed is slow, but very tight serves are possible, althought spin is missing compared to other blades like Spinlord Ultra Carbon Def. In spite of low speed, feeling of control is not best possible. In spite of lacking spin and speed, Hurricane seems to work best in real games among the available alternatives. It seems that very slow playing style works better for my FH, as opponent are more used to average faster looping. Also smashing style plays work.
- Hard rubbers (as many has suggested) maybe the way to go with Unicorn. Maybe thinner sponge might work...
- Unicorn FH works well with smashing style of play.
- Unicorn works for players who rely on control, wide angles, tight table play and attack prevention.
Author:  haggisv [ 08 Dec 2023, 17:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
I tried the Unicorn blade with Hellfire X. Although reversal was good, I found it to be too sensitive to angle of the bat to me when blocking loops. If my bat angle was slightly off, it would go either in the net or over the end. Perhaps I should try it with Dtecs.
I found the blade to have quite a hard feel, so I'm not surprised that soft rubbers will just bottom out. I think very hard rubber will likely be hard to control as well, so something medium hardness or something hard with a soft topsheet might work. I tried it with Victas 401, did not like it, the feel was just too hard, while it's a spin monster on soft blades. I expect rubbers like Tenergy 05 and similar rubbers would probably work well.
Will be great to hear if you can find a forehand rubber that matches it well.
Author:  ChasFox [ 11 Dec 2023, 18:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Haggis due you think the angle susceptibility issue with the Hellfire X is mainly due to the direct rebound off the hard Unicorn blade. Have you played the hellfire X on a softer blade?
Author:  haggisv [ 11 Dec 2023, 19:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
ChasFox wrote:
Haggis due you think the angle susceptibility issue with the Hellfire X is mainly due to the direct rebound off the hard Unicorn blade. Have you played the hellfire X on a softer blade?

Yes that's exactly what I think. I can't remember if I tried the hellfire X on another blade... I only tried it on this blade since I believe it's the recommended blade for it by Sauer & Tröger. Of course it may be my skills level that's the problem. :oops:
Author:  Roy [ 12 Dec 2023, 03:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
ChasFox wrote:
Haggis due you think the angle susceptibility issue with the Hellfire X is mainly due to the direct rebound off the hard Unicorn blade. Have you played the hellfire X on a softer blade?

Unicorn has direct rebound, compared to blades like CWX or Spinlord Ultra Carbon. Anyway, I find Unicorn easy to play and sinking balls are bit more difficult for opponent than higher throwing balls. I haven't played Hellfire X for a while after the pips broke, but for me Hellfire X felt one of the best ox pips. I have couple of carbon blades that have also direct rebound and good braking against loops, but otherwise thay are fast and delicate to handle in many situations.

For the Unicorn FH I revisited the Golden Tango PS and as I remembered, it had even too much dwell time. Control is kind of nice, but higher gear is missing. Then I glued fresher Hurricane Neo instead of older booster sheet and the good spin was there - boosting seem to make sheets mushy for me and take the crispiness off. Well I hope that I would be satisfied with Hurricane, because it would be cheap and easy solution to the FH. Basic speed is low, serves are tight and spinny, control is there and top end speed better than with Golden Tango PS.
Author:  Vinnie [ 16 Dec 2023, 17:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Anyone else aside from OP tried both the Matador and Unicorn? Am staying close to the table and attacking with OX pimples more and more (alongside FH loops), so am wanting something a bit stiffer and faster than my current blade.

Think I’ve narrowed it down to these two options, probably putting Rakza Z 2.0 and Spinlord Hai OX on it.
Author:  Diegox [ 21 Dec 2023, 00:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Jubasdk wrote:
I have made 3 setups, and then set it up against each other.

All setups have 100% same forehand and same backhand the only thing there is change, is the blade.
The three blade is:
Dr Neubauer - Matador off-
Der Materialspezialist - The Wall def-
Sauer & Tröger - Unicorn all-

Forehand:
Stiga DNA Pro S, 1.9mm, red, Glued with Andro Free glue.

Backhand:
Sauer & Tröger Hellfire X, ox, black, glued with adhesive foil fom Der Materialspezialist.

My playstyle is a combi of def and off, where a lot of my game is disruptive. I try to damage my opponents game, and frustrated her game.
I love spinreversal more than anything else, and i love the control when i have to take service.
Then i also love the control in the game, when i can control my opponent, and i can build the game when i like it.
And of course... i love to go back, and then chop again, and again, and again with a lot of control, and effect.

I have played a lot with a guy who have about 2000 rating in Denmark, and is a good clean looper in both forehand and backhand.
Then i also have played a bit against a Newgy Robopong 2050, when i can see the spinreversal, when i return a heavy spinny ball, and then see it bounch back again.

Dr Neubabuer - Matador.
This blade give SO much spinreversal, SO much.
It is also very fast, and very hard, and then the control isnt there.
I think this blade is excellent when you have to only play on spinreversal, and then just laying the ball back.
The forehand here is nice, and have the "modern" speed. So there is nothing to say her... it works.
1-100
Speed: 90
Control: 70
Spinreversal: 100

Der Materialspezialst - The Wall.
This is a slow blade, and it is very soft, and take the speed off the ball on every stroke.
The spinreversal is good on this blade, but not at all so good at the Matador. -When the matador has 100% Spinreversal, this The Wall has about 60%.
On the chop away from the table, and on the active block close to the table, the spinreversal go higher and we are now talking about 70%.
The control is so high on this blade... soooo high. It is surely because of the low speed. You can chop with so much control, and place the ball exactly where you want.
On blocks close to the table the control is also very high, and you can control and feel the ball very well, and even the hard spinny loops, you can block short and low to the net.
Forehand on this blade is also slow, and high control. It takes me a long time to make a good loop with this forehand, because of the ultra low speed.
1-100
Speed: 40
Control: 100
Spinreversal: 70

Sauer & Tröger - Unicorn
Then we have the unicorn. And a very strange blade. I have not seen this treefibre used on a allround blade before.
The blade is a bit hard, and have a high sound when i bounch the ball on the blade without rubbers.
But in the game, this blade change character. It is like a soft allround blade, with massive control.
The spinreversal is very close to the Matador, but with slower speed and more control.
The passive blocks are easy to do, and the active blocks make so much spinreversal.
On the chops away from the table, it has the same control as The Wall. Very easy to chop with, and massive spinreversal.
Forehand on this blade is also like the Matador... the "modern" forehand speed is here, and it is easy to loop with, and make a lot of spin.
One thing this blade is better at, than the two others, is attack... it is much, much easier to attack on underspin, and highballs. So crispy and good speed and control.
I think this is the best blade for Long OX pips i ever tried... and i promise, i have really tried a lot. I think the hard surface on this Unicorn gives so much to the pips.
1-100
Speed: 70 - it feels like it has more speed in the forehand, than the backhand. Think the blade absorb the speed on OX rubbers? Then i will say Forehand 85, Backhand 60.
Control: 95
Spinreversal: 98

I hope this gives a lot of information about these blades.
The time i have trained is about 3x3hours with some intensive times, and then with some fun times, where i have tried some things.
I think this blade will be a legend, exactly like the Nittaku Shake Defence.
4 of my training buddies have now bought this blade, and waiting on it will arrive.

Best regards.
Morten Nissen
Denmark


Thank you for this amazing Review, this was the most detailed and useful I saw. Now I’m curious to see more of your game. Do you have some YouTube or IG channel where we can find your matches and ask you more questions?

Thanks again.

—————————————————————————————————————
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Dieg-OX
—————————————————————————————————————
Author:  Nebur [ 22 Jan 2024, 22:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
i went for the S&T recommended setup with unicorn + hellfire x bh and their secret flow chop FH.

If the complaints with offensive rubbers are that it's too slow on FH I wonder how secret flow chop will feel :D
Author:  Diegox [ 23 Jan 2024, 05:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Nebur wrote:
i went for the S&T recommended setup with unicorn + hellfire x bh and their secret flow chop FH.

If the complaints with offensive rubbers are that it's too slow on FH I wonder how secret flow chop will feel :D


Interesting, let me know how it goes. I’m curious about this combination.

Regards.
Author:  Roy [ 23 Jan 2024, 07:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Nebur wrote:
i went for the S&T recommended setup with unicorn + hellfire x bh and their secret flow chop FH.

If the complaints with offensive rubbers are that it's too slow on FH I wonder how secret flow chop will feel :D

With offensive rubbers I have had all kinds of problems with Unicorn: lack of speed, control, spin and feel... :lol: Secret flow chop might actually be nice with Unicorn for underspin, control and smashing type of attacks. Looping might not be it's best side.
Author:  Nebur [ 23 Jan 2024, 18:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Roy wrote:
Nebur wrote:
i went for the S&T recommended setup with unicorn + hellfire x bh and their secret flow chop FH.

If the complaints with offensive rubbers are that it's too slow on FH I wonder how secret flow chop will feel :D

With offensive rubbers I have had all kinds of problems with Unicorn: lack of speed, control, spin and feel... :lol: Secret flow chop might actually be nice with Unicorn for underspin, control and smashing type of attacks. Looping might not be it's best side.

Yeah, either block, push, chop or smash with the FH. Rarely loop. I don't want to open up the game and end up in some FH/FH rally with a strong attacker anyway. If it's good enough for the occasional slow opening loop to surprise someone with it's fine.

And I already figured out smashing with defensive rubbers is very safe. Can hardly miss unless you do something crazy
Author:  Diegox [ 23 Jan 2024, 19:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sauer & Tröger, Hellfire X, ox and Unicorn vs others
Nebur wrote:
Roy wrote:
Nebur wrote:
i went for the S&T recommended setup with unicorn + hellfire x bh and their secret flow chop FH.

If the complaints with offensive rubbers are that it's too slow on FH I wonder how secret flow chop will feel :D

With offensive rubbers I have had all kinds of problems with Unicorn: lack of speed, control, spin and feel... :lol: Secret flow chop might actually be nice with Unicorn for underspin, control and smashing type of attacks. Looping might not be it's best side.

Yeah, either block, push, chop or smash with the FH. Rarely loop. I don't want to open up the game and end up in some FH/FH rally with a strong attacker anyway. If it's good enough for the occasional slow opening loop to surprise someone with it's fine.

And I already figured out smashing with defensive rubbers is very safe. Can hardly miss unless you do something crazy


So nice that you have so clear what you do with your racket. I think is all about it, how the racket improve your qualities and not the oposite way. looking forward for you conclusions after using them :D
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