OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 17:29


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 13:05 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 10:37
Posts: 600
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 106 times
Blade: OSP Ultimate
FH: DrN Dominance Spin Hard
BH: DrN Troublemaker 0.5
I wanted to ask for some equipment advice! I have been toying with the idea of maybe switching from frictionless anti to long pips with thin sponge to play a more aggressive style and be able to attack better with backhand. With the frictionless anti you can really only attack underspin reliably. Obviously the downside would be to lose massive reversal blocking loops so overall game strategy might have to be adjusted. I don't like lp ox hence the thin sponge but I think it also gives you more margin in attacking. I was thinking it should be easier to attack serves and to block and counter actively. And you can get reversal on chop blocks and chops when you step back (you are toast when you step back with anti). I don't want to move to mp or sp because then you always have to play fast but with the right lp you can still slow things down or drop the ball short. So I believe the lp should be on the slower side.
Does this idea make any sense? And here is the million dollar question: which lp to try? I thought about Troublemaker with 0.6mm sponge. Maybe some cheap China stuff just to try?
For reference, I got as high as USATT 1932 rating with anti largely due to my forehand and I'm planning to continue to play with my old 70s Stiga ALL (on the heavier side, play like OFF-).

_________________
Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 13:24 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 13:20
Posts: 893
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 158 times
TM in 0.6mm sounds perfect! For cheap Chinese consider Galaxy Neptune in 0.7mm or Dawei 388D-1 available in 0.5-0.7mm, and 1.0-1.2mm. The D-1 may be a little fast but not overly. The Neptune will suit better I think. Good luck! :up:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 13:43 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 09:24
Posts: 1356
Location: Universe
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 102 times
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPogBHByXI

1) TIBHAR Long DTec OX on black side. + 2-x glue sheets underneath.
2) Sword VENOM, sponge 0.3 mm should be a close analogue to D.Tec rubber.

Be happy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 17:35 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 19:53
Posts: 215
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 61 times
Blade: Nittaku: Shake Defense
FH: Andro: Rasanter R48 1.7mm
BH: Spinlord: Leviathan 1A ox
I'd recommend schmerz in 0.5mm, excellent for sideswipes, bumps, chopping and rolls or Rasant Chaos in 0.5mm which is a little quicker then schmerz but offers better reversal and wobble/disruption but has lower grip and is harder to drive with. Either are good for an all round active game.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 22:15 
Offline
Darth Pips
Darth Pips
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4902
Location: St Francis, WI, USA
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 198 times
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5
Hi Matt, hope you are doing well! I will second the recommendation for Dawei 388 D-1. Dr Neubauer Troublemaker is also a good suggestion. A classic attacking long pip that you can get pretty inexpensively is Friendship 755.

You are right in that you will have to adjust a lot in terms of your playing style. In going from pips to anti, I found I needed to start using different shot combinations and placements to maximize my strategies.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 23:24 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 00:48
Posts: 2352
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 185 times
Blade: BBC 400
FH: Victax VO > 102
BH: GD Attack Long
I'd second the 755 recommendation as OX sheets can be had for around $5. OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge. Use a stiff all-wood blade because the vagaries of flex make playing with LP too difficult, in my experience. Attach OX LP with a Donic glue sheet. If you like 755, a step up in performance and cost (and less durability, unfortunately) is Dr Neubauer Trouble Maker.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 05:54 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 10:37
Posts: 600
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 106 times
Blade: OSP Ultimate
FH: DrN Dominance Spin Hard
BH: DrN Troublemaker 0.5
dwruck wrote:
Hi Matt, hope you are doing well! I will second the recommendation for Dawei 388 D-1. Dr Neubauer Troublemaker is also a good suggestion. A classic attacking long pip that you can get pretty inexpensively is Friendship 755.

You are right in that you will have to adjust a lot in terms of your playing style. In going from pips to anti, I found I needed to start using different shot combinations and placements to maximize my strategies.

Thanks Doug! I am doing well. Hope you are well too. I think I'll get a sheet of 755 first since it's inexpensive and go from there.

I figured I'd have to change my strategies and shot combinations but I thought since I haven't played at all since last March maybe now is the best time to try something different. If it doesn't work at all, I have a brand-new sheet of Dr. N ABS2 Evo lying around from pre-COVID times...

nathanso wrote:
OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge.

Why do you think attacking is easier with OX? I have tried ox pips in the past and found the margins for attacking always very slim though I'm obviously not an lp expert. I also don't like the very hard and direct feel hence the idea with the thin sponge.

_________________
Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 21:45 
Offline
Darth Pips
Darth Pips
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4902
Location: St Francis, WI, USA
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 198 times
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5
Matt, have you ever tried the Der Materialspezialist anti spin rubbers? I did a lot of testing of antis, and found them to provide much more disturbing effect than the Dr Neubauer ones.

With long pips, having sponge will give you less "effect". If you are able to learn to hit with OX, it will be more strange for the opponent. Too much sponge and it's too "normal" of a ball. It's whatever feels best for you, though. With how cheap the 755 is, why not get both OX and a thin sponge and compare?

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 00:44 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 10:37
Posts: 600
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 106 times
Blade: OSP Ultimate
FH: DrN Dominance Spin Hard
BH: DrN Troublemaker 0.5
dwruck wrote:
Matt, have you ever tried the Der Materialspezialist anti spin rubbers? I did a lot of testing of antis, and found them to provide much more disturbing effect than the Dr Neubauer ones.

Doug, I have not tried any of the DMS antis but I have tested pretty much every Dr N anti. I generally like his products and I particularly like the feel of the more recent antis with thick hard sponges.

dwruck wrote:
With long pips, having sponge will give you less "effect". If you are able to learn to hit with OX, it will be more strange for the opponent. Too much sponge and it's too "normal" of a ball. It's whatever feels best for you, though. With how cheap the 755 is, why not get both OX and a thin sponge and compare?

I am aware that OX is generally more disturbing but I have tried a couple OX lp in the past and didn't really like the direct feel hence the idea with the thin sponge. I would also expect more consistent attacking and more margins with a little bit of a sponge.
How do you block hard shots like loop drives with OX? In my couple of ill-fated attempts at it that was the biggest problem.

_________________
Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 May 2021, 11:06 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010, 17:50
Posts: 329
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 22 times
Matt, I have a sheet of Neptune that was given to me by a fellow club member. I have no plans of using it. Text me your address again and I will drop it off your front door.

tony

_________________
The Dark Side: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 May 2021, 11:45 
Offline
Senior member

Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 04:58
Posts: 198
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 18 times
Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to switch to frictionless antis for someone with about 2000 rating who played LPs OX for the past ten years?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 May 2021, 23:28 
Offline
Darth Pips
Darth Pips
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4902
Location: St Francis, WI, USA
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 198 times
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5
Matt, for me, the best way to attempt to handle hard loop drives with OX long pips is to aggressively chop block. If you just hold the blade steady, it takes on all of the force of the shot. You could learn the "pull back" technique, where you are pulling back on the blade as the ball approaches. But I think an aggressive chop block is better, as long as you match (or close to) the speed of the ball rotation, it can accentuate the amount of spin reversal you give back while taking some of the momentum off the ball. But it won't be anywhere near what a frictionless anti can do.

Nachalnik, it depends a bit on how frequently you can practice. The techniques between long pips use and frictionless anti spin use are quite different, especially if you have an active stroke. What I always tell people is, if you enjoy playing a close to the table game that is defensive, you can't beat frictionless pips. The time investment (probably months) is worth it. If you enjoy manipulating spin, you can obviously do that more effectively with a grippy long pip.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 02:26 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 10:37
Posts: 600
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 106 times
Blade: OSP Ultimate
FH: DrN Dominance Spin Hard
BH: DrN Troublemaker 0.5
dwruck wrote:
Matt, for me, the best way to attempt to handle hard loop drives with OX long pips is to aggressively chop block. If you just hold the blade steady, it takes on all of the force of the shot. You could learn the "pull back" technique, where you are pulling back on the blade as the ball approaches. But I think an aggressive chop block is better, as long as you match (or close to) the speed of the ball rotation, it can accentuate the amount of spin reversal you give back while taking some of the momentum off the ball. But it won't be anywhere near what a frictionless anti can do.

Thanks Doug! I guess I would have to practice that...a lot. On my couple of tries with OX lp I could chop block slow loops but I have no idea how you would do that on a shot with lots of pace.

_________________
Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 05:08 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 00:48
Posts: 2352
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 185 times
Blade: BBC 400
FH: Victax VO > 102
BH: GD Attack Long
Matt Pimple wrote:
dwruck wrote:
Hi Matt, hope you are doing well! I will second the recommendation for Dawei 388 D-1. Dr Neubauer Troublemaker is also a good suggestion. A classic attacking long pip that you can get pretty inexpensively is Friendship 755.

You are right in that you will have to adjust a lot in terms of your playing style. In going from pips to anti, I found I needed to start using different shot combinations and placements to maximize my strategies.

Thanks Doug! I am doing well. Hope you are well too. I think I'll get a sheet of 755 first since it's inexpensive and go from there.

I figured I'd have to change my strategies and shot combinations but I thought since I haven't played at all since last March maybe now is the best time to try something different. If it doesn't work at all, I have a brand-new sheet of Dr. N ABS2 Evo lying around from pre-COVID times...

nathanso wrote:
OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge.

Why do you think attacking is easier with OX? I have tried ox pips in the past and found the margins for attacking always very slim though I'm obviously not an lp expert. I also don't like the very hard and direct feel hence the idea with the thin sponge.

As noted here by dwruck, drives from sponged LPs are too normal and are easily returned, much like a wimpy shot with a sub-par inverted rubber. You might feel like a hero for being able to execute the somewhat difficult stoke but the resulting ball will be given little respect. Blade choice is all-important when building a paddle for OX LP BH attack. You want a stiff all-wood blade with soft outer plies. I use a BBC 3-ply blade comprised of Cypress-Poplar-Cypress that's modeled after the old Yasaka Leopard. You are correct that if you put OX LP on a fast carbon blade and/or a blade with hard outer plies that ball-feel and dwell will suffer, making the paddle good for little but blocking.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 23:09 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 24 Apr 2011, 11:24
Posts: 879
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 230 times
Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
FH: Spinny stuff
BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
Sponged lp is more like playing with medium or short pips. You need to be very aggressive, going for pressuring hits and if you don't... as mentioned, the ball will be of little threat. They force you to be offensive in nature. Like he zhoujia from China, for example.

Coming from frictionless anti... the mindset is totally different, along with the play style.

Basically, the easier it is to attack with, the easier it will be to return. So you must decide which element is most important to you. Are you going to be hitting every shot? Or wanting to block a good deal?

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group