OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking

Hi Matt, hope you are doing well! I will second the recommendation for Dawei 388 D-1. Dr Neubauer Troublemaker is also a good suggestion. A classic attacking long pip that you can get pretty inexpensively is Friendship 755.

You are right in that you will have to adjust a lot in terms of your playing style. In going from pips to anti, I found I needed to start using different shot combinations and placements to maximize my strategies.

OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge.

Matt, have you ever tried the Der Materialspezialist anti spin rubbers? I did a lot of testing of antis, and found them to provide much more disturbing effect than the Dr Neubauer ones.

With long pips, having sponge will give you less "effect". If you are able to learn to hit with OX, it will be more strange for the opponent. Too much sponge and it's too "normal" of a ball. It's whatever feels best for you, though. With how cheap the 755 is, why not get both OX and a thin sponge and compare?

Matt, for me, the best way to attempt to handle hard loop drives with OX long pips is to aggressively chop block. If you just hold the blade steady, it takes on all of the force of the shot. You could learn the "pull back" technique, where you are pulling back on the blade as the ball approaches. But I think an aggressive chop block is better, as long as you match (or close to) the speed of the ball rotation, it can accentuate the amount of spin reversal you give back while taking some of the momentum off the ball. But it won't be anywhere near what a frictionless anti can do.

dwruck wrote:

Thanks Doug! I am doing well. Hope you are well too. I think I'll get a sheet of 755 first since it's inexpensive and go from there.

I figured I'd have to change my strategies and shot combinations but I thought since I haven't played at all since last March maybe now is the best time to try something different. If it doesn't work at all, I have a brand-new sheet of Dr. N ABS2 Evo lying around from pre-COVID times...

nathanso wrote:

OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge.

Why do you think attacking is easier with OX? I have tried ox pips in the past and found the margins for attacking always very slim though I'm obviously not an lp expert. I also don't like the very hard and direct feel hence the idea with the thin sponge.

Author:	Matt Pimple [ 06 May 2021, 13:05 ]
Post subject:	Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
I wanted to ask for some equipment advice! I have been toying with the idea of maybe switching from frictionless anti to long pips with thin sponge to play a more aggressive style and be able to attack better with backhand. With the frictionless anti you can really only attack underspin reliably. Obviously the downside would be to lose massive reversal blocking loops so overall game strategy might have to be adjusted. I don't like lp ox hence the thin sponge but I think it also gives you more margin in attacking. I was thinking it should be easier to attack serves and to block and counter actively. And you can get reversal on chop blocks and chops when you step back (you are toast when you step back with anti). I don't want to move to mp or sp because then you always have to play fast but with the right lp you can still slow things down or drop the ball short. So I believe the lp should be on the slower side. Does this idea make any sense? And here is the million dollar question: which lp to try? I thought about Troublemaker with 0.6mm sponge. Maybe some cheap China stuff just to try? For reference, I got as high as USATT 1932 rating with anti largely due to my forehand and I'm planning to continue to play with my old 70s Stiga ALL (on the heavier side, play like OFF-).

Author:	TTbuddy [ 06 May 2021, 13:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
TM in 0.6mm sounds perfect! For cheap Chinese consider Galaxy Neptune in 0.7mm or Dawei 388D-1 available in 0.5-0.7mm, and 1.0-1.2mm. The D-1 may be a little fast but not overly. The Neptune will suit better I think. Good luck!

Author:	igorponger [ 06 May 2021, 13:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPogBHByXI 1) TIBHAR Long DTec OX on black side. + 2-x glue sheets underneath. 2) Sword VENOM, sponge 0.3 mm should be a close analogue to D.Tec rubber. Be happy.

Author:	Rob M [ 06 May 2021, 17:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
I'd recommend schmerz in 0.5mm, excellent for sideswipes, bumps, chopping and rolls or Rasant Chaos in 0.5mm which is a little quicker then schmerz but offers better reversal and wobble/disruption but has lower grip and is harder to drive with. Either are good for an all round active game.

Author:	dwruck [ 06 May 2021, 22:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
Hi Matt, hope you are doing well! I will second the recommendation for Dawei 388 D-1. Dr Neubauer Troublemaker is also a good suggestion. A classic attacking long pip that you can get pretty inexpensively is Friendship 755. You are right in that you will have to adjust a lot in terms of your playing style. In going from pips to anti, I found I needed to start using different shot combinations and placements to maximize my strategies.

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Author:	nathanso [ 06 May 2021, 23:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
I'd second the 755 recommendation as OX sheets can be had for around $5. OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge. Use a stiff all-wood blade because the vagaries of flex make playing with LP too difficult, in my experience. Attach OX LP with a Donic glue sheet. If you like 755, a step up in performance and cost (and less durability, unfortunately) is Dr Neubauer Trouble Maker.

Author:	Matt Pimple [ 07 May 2021, 05:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
dwruck wrote: Hi Matt, hope you are doing well! I will second the recommendation for Dawei 388 D-1. Dr Neubauer Troublemaker is also a good suggestion. A classic attacking long pip that you can get pretty inexpensively is Friendship 755. You are right in that you will have to adjust a lot in terms of your playing style. In going from pips to anti, I found I needed to start using different shot combinations and placements to maximize my strategies. Thanks Doug! I am doing well. Hope you are well too. I think I'll get a sheet of 755 first since it's inexpensive and go from there. I figured I'd have to change my strategies and shot combinations but I thought since I haven't played at all since last March maybe now is the best time to try something different. If it doesn't work at all, I have a brand-new sheet of Dr. N ABS2 Evo lying around from pre-COVID times... nathanso wrote: OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge. Why do you think attacking is easier with OX? I have tried ox pips in the past and found the margins for attacking always very slim though I'm obviously not an lp expert. I also don't like the very hard and direct feel hence the idea with the thin sponge.

Author:	dwruck [ 07 May 2021, 21:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
Matt, have you ever tried the Der Materialspezialist anti spin rubbers? I did a lot of testing of antis, and found them to provide much more disturbing effect than the Dr Neubauer ones. With long pips, having sponge will give you less "effect". If you are able to learn to hit with OX, it will be more strange for the opponent. Too much sponge and it's too "normal" of a ball. It's whatever feels best for you, though. With how cheap the 755 is, why not get both OX and a thin sponge and compare?

Author:	Matt Pimple [ 08 May 2021, 00:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
dwruck wrote: Matt, have you ever tried the Der Materialspezialist anti spin rubbers? I did a lot of testing of antis, and found them to provide much more disturbing effect than the Dr Neubauer ones. Doug, I have not tried any of the DMS antis but I have tested pretty much every Dr N anti. I generally like his products and I particularly like the feel of the more recent antis with thick hard sponges. dwruck wrote: With long pips, having sponge will give you less "effect". If you are able to learn to hit with OX, it will be more strange for the opponent. Too much sponge and it's too "normal" of a ball. It's whatever feels best for you, though. With how cheap the 755 is, why not get both OX and a thin sponge and compare? I am aware that OX is generally more disturbing but I have tried a couple OX lp in the past and didn't really like the direct feel hence the idea with the thin sponge. I would also expect more consistent attacking and more margins with a little bit of a sponge. How do you block hard shots like loop drives with OX? In my couple of ill-fated attempts at it that was the biggest problem.

Author:	fazer227 [ 10 May 2021, 11:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
Matt, I have a sheet of Neptune that was given to me by a fellow club member. I have no plans of using it. Text me your address again and I will drop it off your front door. tony

Author:	nachalnik [ 10 May 2021, 11:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to switch to frictionless antis for someone with about 2000 rating who played LPs OX for the past ten years?

Author:	dwruck [ 10 May 2021, 23:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
Matt, for me, the best way to attempt to handle hard loop drives with OX long pips is to aggressively chop block. If you just hold the blade steady, it takes on all of the force of the shot. You could learn the "pull back" technique, where you are pulling back on the blade as the ball approaches. But I think an aggressive chop block is better, as long as you match (or close to) the speed of the ball rotation, it can accentuate the amount of spin reversal you give back while taking some of the momentum off the ball. But it won't be anywhere near what a frictionless anti can do. Nachalnik, it depends a bit on how frequently you can practice. The techniques between long pips use and frictionless anti spin use are quite different, especially if you have an active stroke. What I always tell people is, if you enjoy playing a close to the table game that is defensive, you can't beat frictionless pips. The time investment (probably months) is worth it. If you enjoy manipulating spin, you can obviously do that more effectively with a grippy long pip.

Author:	Matt Pimple [ 11 May 2021, 02:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
dwruck wrote: Matt, for me, the best way to attempt to handle hard loop drives with OX long pips is to aggressively chop block. If you just hold the blade steady, it takes on all of the force of the shot. You could learn the "pull back" technique, where you are pulling back on the blade as the ball approaches. But I think an aggressive chop block is better, as long as you match (or close to) the speed of the ball rotation, it can accentuate the amount of spin reversal you give back while taking some of the momentum off the ball. But it won't be anywhere near what a frictionless anti can do. Thanks Doug! I guess I would have to practice that...a lot. On my couple of tries with OX lp I could chop block slow loops but I have no idea how you would do that on a shot with lots of pace.

Author:	nathanso [ 11 May 2021, 05:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
Matt Pimple wrote: dwruck wrote: Hi Matt, hope you are doing well! I will second the recommendation for Dawei 388 D-1. Dr Neubauer Troublemaker is also a good suggestion. A classic attacking long pip that you can get pretty inexpensively is Friendship 755. You are right in that you will have to adjust a lot in terms of your playing style. In going from pips to anti, I found I needed to start using different shot combinations and placements to maximize my strategies. Thanks Doug! I am doing well. Hope you are well too. I think I'll get a sheet of 755 first since it's inexpensive and go from there. I figured I'd have to change my strategies and shot combinations but I thought since I haven't played at all since last March maybe now is the best time to try something different. If it doesn't work at all, I have a brand-new sheet of Dr. N ABS2 Evo lying around from pre-COVID times... nathanso wrote: OX is, believe it or not, better for attacking than sponge. Why do you think attacking is easier with OX? I have tried ox pips in the past and found the margins for attacking always very slim though I'm obviously not an lp expert. I also don't like the very hard and direct feel hence the idea with the thin sponge. As noted here by dwruck, drives from sponged LPs are too normal and are easily returned, much like a wimpy shot with a sub-par inverted rubber. You might feel like a hero for being able to execute the somewhat difficult stoke but the resulting ball will be given little respect. Blade choice is all-important when building a paddle for OX LP BH attack. You want a stiff all-wood blade with soft outer plies. I use a BBC 3-ply blade comprised of Cypress-Poplar-Cypress that's modeled after the old Yasaka Leopard. You are correct that if you put OX LP on a fast carbon blade and/or a blade with hard outer plies that ball-feel and dwell will suffer, making the paddle good for little but blocking.

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Author:	skilless_slapper [ 11 May 2021, 23:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Need advice on LP with thin sponge for attacking
Sponged lp is more like playing with medium or short pips. You need to be very aggressive, going for pressuring hits and if you don't... as mentioned, the ball will be of little threat. They force you to be offensive in nature. Like he zhoujia from China, for example. Coming from frictionless anti... the mindset is totally different, along with the play style. Basically, the easier it is to attack with, the easier it will be to return. So you must decide which element is most important to you. Are you going to be hitting every shot? Or wanting to block a good deal?