OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 15:11


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 01:26 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 05:51
Posts: 549
Location: UK
Has thanked: 83 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso
FH: Mark V HPS 2.0
BH: Dtecs OX
Do a lot of these LPs really differ so greatly to the point it can hinder my progression going from a very average player to a somewhat decent player?

I kinda just want to use Dawei 388d or D-1 because they are so cheap (and money is kind of an issue now). But I am willing to spend the money if Dtecs or Troublemaker (or any LP) would really be a lot better.

Would it be safe to say that 388d would not hold me back in any way and I can still reach my potential or would Dtecs give me an edge to take me higher?

Before anyone asks about style, check my youtube, I would like to get back to playing similar vs Marlon except not going as far back IF I CAN (depends how my knee feels). Otherwise I'll be limited to close/fairly close to table.

_________________
my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572


Top
 Profile  
 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!

PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 01:40 
Offline
Chopoleon Bonaparte
User avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 07:21
Posts: 914
Location: New York, New York
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 164 times
Blade: Nittaku Shake Defense
FH: Tibhar EvolutionELP 1.9mm
BH: Saviga Super Block OX
There is generally a far greater difference from LP to another than there is among different inverted rubbers, and there are some LPs that are absolutely unsuited to a blocking game because they will not give you good spin reversal or will result in the ball popping up too high on blocks. However, the Dawei 388d-1 should be fine for blocking, and I do not believe that the choice to go with the Dawei 388d-1 over some more expensive LP rubbers will be a huge obstacle in getting better. Some other good, cheap options that I'd go for if I were looking for a cheap LP for a blocking game are the Bomb Talent (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32362645837.html) and the Dawei Saviga Super Block (http://tabletennisonly.com/index.php?ma ... cts_id=739).

The main thing that will keep you from progressing is continually switching LPs, like some morons including myself have done (though, in our defense, the ITTF's continually switching up the rules and the ball is a big part of the reason for that), so don't do that!

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 02:05 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 05:51
Posts: 549
Location: UK
Has thanked: 83 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso
FH: Mark V HPS 2.0
BH: Dtecs OX
TraditionalTradesman wrote:
There is generally a far greater difference from LP to another than there is among different inverted rubbers, and there are some LPs that are absolutely unsuited to a blocking game because they will not give you good spin reversal or will result in the ball popping up too high on blocks. However, the Dawei 388d-1 should be fine for blocking, and I do not believe that the choice to go with the Dawei 388d-1 over some more expensive LP rubbers will be a huge obstacle in getting better. Some other good, cheap options that I'd go for if I were looking for a cheap LP for a blocking game are the Bomb Talent (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32362645837.html) and the Dawei Saviga Super Block (http://tabletennisonly.com/index.php?ma ... cts_id=739).

The main thing that will keep you from progressing is continually switching LPs, like some morons including myself have done (though, in our defense, the ITTF's continually switching up the rules and the ball is a big part of the reason for that), so don't do that!


That is precisely what I want to stop, I tried ABS 2 EVO and I liked it but the durability let me down. So now I'm using what I currently have which is 2 blades 1 with Dtecs and 1 with 388d (not D-1). But I have a Nittaku Shake Defence blade which I want to use once I decided on a LP. Choosing between those 2 LPs alone is hard enough so I'd rather not add others to the list if possible. The price difference is literally 1/10 of Dtecs which is why I make this thread. I see so many people use Dtecs and some good youtube players swear by it which makes me wonder if it would take me further or not.

_________________
my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 03:04 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 07 Jul 2021, 02:51
Posts: 4
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Blade: MoonBeam
FH: flarestrom
BH: impartial
As the sport evolves, you need to move on and have no choice to find a new suitable blade/ rubber. You cannot just pick any rubber and stick with it. I agree you should not be buying expensive rubbers like Butterfly or Dr.Neubauer etc primarily because they really don't care about pips players. (Dr.Neubauer claims they are pips oriented but they have done absolutely nothing to fight Scholer terror that actually started in 1995 at Tianjin WTTC BGM).

That said, it is time to move on to higher aspect ratio pips. There are only 3 or 4 and it is worth trying and getting used to. There is another thread that details these High Aspect Ratio Pips at Ali Express. So far my favorite Magic 77 is only like $9 (or you can buy Butterfly Diginix for $96). Second favorite is Avalox. I don't like Mo Wang 3 but who knows you may like them. Reach C8 I'm still undecided.

You should try them at your club & league & then move on to tournaments. You will very quickly find out who your real friends are in table-tennis.

These rubbers are little too unpredictable for my taste. I prefer predictable rubbers like Feint Long Classic or KTL Stranger but I like the increase in backspin especially the spin reversal against speed-glued & boosted top-spin. with these new high aspect ratio rubbers lot more than I don't like lack of control but I am willing to live with for now But if you are a close to the table blocker you will absolutely love these new high aspect ratio rubbers. Maybe they will come up with more controllable high aspect ratio rubbers for away from the table defenders in next generation of high aspect ratio rubbers. But unfortunately, if you choose to stay spineless & refuse to support this cause fearing the wrath of robotNazis, the progress will be delayed. So the quicker you start using them, the better off you are and so I very strongly urge all pips players to dump the old (totally worthless in 40+ era) & expensive low aspect ratio long pips and move on please


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 23:15 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 06 Nov 2009, 04:40
Posts: 1641
Location: Texas, USA
Has thanked: 343 times
Been thanked: 104 times
Blade: 729 HS Champion carbon
FH: Razka X max, black
BH: SavigaV LP 1.0 red/green
Ndragon wrote:
Do a lot of these LPs really differ so greatly to the point it can hinder my progression going from a very average player to a somewhat decent player?

I kinda just want to use Dawei 388d or D-1 because they are so cheap (and money is kind of an issue now). But I am willing to spend the money if Dtecs or Troublemaker (or any LP) would really be a lot better.

Would it be safe to say that 388d would not hold me back in any way and I can still reach my potential or would Dtecs give me an edge to take me higher?

Before anyone asks about style, check my youtube, I would like to get back to playing similar vs Marlon except not going as far back IF I CAN (depends how my knee feels). Otherwise I'll be limited to close/fairly close to table.


I cannot say it loud enough or long enough but NO!!!

388 is a perfectly reasonable pip. Do not follow in my footsteps. Get a pip and stick with it. I do see changing blades or inverted over time, but LP is that last thing you should change and then only if you cannot get that one anymore due to commercial or ITTF bans. If I had stayed with 755 like I started with I would have saved myself a large amount of money AND improved my game where I am today.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 23:57 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 05:51
Posts: 549
Location: UK
Has thanked: 83 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso
FH: Mark V HPS 2.0
BH: Dtecs OX
vanjr wrote:
Ndragon wrote:
Do a lot of these LPs really differ so greatly to the point it can hinder my progression going from a very average player to a somewhat decent player?

I kinda just want to use Dawei 388d or D-1 because they are so cheap (and money is kind of an issue now). But I am willing to spend the money if Dtecs or Troublemaker (or any LP) would really be a lot better.

Would it be safe to say that 388d would not hold me back in any way and I can still reach my potential or would Dtecs give me an edge to take me higher?

Before anyone asks about style, check my youtube, I would like to get back to playing similar vs Marlon except not going as far back IF I CAN (depends how my knee feels). Otherwise I'll be limited to close/fairly close to table.


I cannot say it loud enough or long enough but NO!!!

388 is a perfectly reasonable pip. Do not follow in my footsteps. Get a pip and stick with it. I do see changing blades or inverted over time, but LP is that last thing you should change and then only if you cannot get that one anymore due to commercial or ITTF bans. If I had stayed with 755 like I started with I would have saved myself a large amount of money AND improved my game where I am today.


Thanks :up: :rock:

I have neither the time or money anymore to mess around with new stuff tbh. I get to play 2-5hrs a week now and I have a goal to get good enough to enter the strong tournaments in UK in a few years so I need to be as efficient as possible with my time and energy now. And LPs are really a master craft! So complex to learn and be good with on a decent lvl of play.

I played today and absolutely struggled :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: to decide which of the 2 to use and stick with. In the end I flipped a coin and Dtecs it was, luckily I have one already on my NSD as well as my Stiga ALL but I don't like the FH rubber on it so I'm using my Stiga ALL classic until end of July.

I'll be posting a new vid by end of day fingers crossed so you can all grill me on it :lol:
Follow me on my progress and let me know what you all think :rock:

_________________
my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 05:56 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 13:20
Posts: 893
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 158 times
Choose and stick with Bomb Talent and you are well sorted. You will not have to look any further! Dawei 388D looks and plays very similar. You cannot go wrong with either. For me it's Bomb Talent. Good luck! :up:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 06:21 
Offline
Chopoleon Bonaparte
User avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 07:21
Posts: 914
Location: New York, New York
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 164 times
Blade: Nittaku Shake Defense
FH: Tibhar EvolutionELP 1.9mm
BH: Saviga Super Block OX
The good thing about the Bomb Talent is that, in addition to being cheap, it's very durable, so you won't have to replace it too often. The only thing with the Bomb Talent is that it's a bit of an advanced pip and can be a bit tricky to master, though if you're using the d.tecs, that's nothing new to you. I also found that the Bomb Talent is very blade-dependent. On the soft balsa Re-Impact blades, I found it to be very sensitive to underspin, but on the Nittaku Shake Defense, that wasn't a problem at all.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 15:09 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 05:51
Posts: 549
Location: UK
Has thanked: 83 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso
FH: Mark V HPS 2.0
BH: Dtecs OX
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll consider Bomb talent in the future. For now I'm gonna stick with Dtecs until at least new year or when it breaks lol

_________________
my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2021, 00:22 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 25 Aug 2010, 05:04
Posts: 564
Location: UK
Has thanked: 267 times
Been thanked: 48 times
Blade: Victas Matsushita
FH: Joola Dynaryz ZGR
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecS
I have tried a lot of pimples and antis and end up going back to DTecS ox red. I block at the table with it and cause havoc.
It is durable. Work with it. Stick with it. You won’t need to replace it often so it will be cost effective.

Bulldog

_________________
Tibhar Stratus Power Defense
Tibhar Evolution ELP
Tibhar Grass DTecS Ox


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2021, 00:02 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 981
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 238 times
Blade: Grubba all Plus
FH: Spinfire 1.5
BH: Bomb Talent OX
I do not understand why people keep asking questions about LP performance....... no change in the rules,.... no new LP will be effective,.... just D.techs , DG , GD NT offer decent disruption and reversal,..... Old Dawei and BT work too,.......

New sheets of D.techs,DG,GD NT , Dawei and BT,..... crappy,.... as the pip ages and improves so will the performance ...... meaning losing friction is paramount, which is PRECISELY what the Ittf does not want you to have in your pips ,....

...end of the story, folks!!!! :lol: :lol: ... BTW, the number of blockers at the table is dwindling MORE AND MORE AND MORE ,..... there are tournaments where you can see one?, two? ,....so less worry for Igor AND THE LIKE ,.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

....Chasing no friction pip players is like chasing the species which are about to be extinct,... a complete waste of time,.... I suggest you all keep an eye on the cocky inverted booster lovers,..... that is where the main part of the dark reality of tt is ,...... :lol: ,..... but there seems to be ZERO interest in this matter ,.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2021, 22:45 
Offline
Darth Pips
Darth Pips
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4902
Location: St Francis, WI, USA
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 198 times
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5
I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you want to play a close to the table defensive blocking style, take the time to learn to play with the new generation of slick anti rubbers. Long pips with that style are still effective at lower levels, and of course there are a handful of players who are the exception to the rule and can play it at a higher level. But for the average player, investing their time in training with slick anti is, to me, the most effective way to play defense close to the table if you're looking for "disruption" and wanting to compete with mid level and higher players.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2021, 06:36 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 24 Apr 2011, 11:24
Posts: 879
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 230 times
Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
FH: Spinny stuff
BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
Naren wrote:
dwruck wrote:
the new generation of slick anti rubbers.


What does this exactly mean ? How does this compare to "old generation" ?

If a rubber is so slick, is that even legal ? How is this measured by ITTf before it is approved to be on LARC ?
If there a minimum friction required for long pips anti rubbers, is there such a requirement for anti rubbers ? Just wondering


New generation is usually referring to the frictionless anti - so it's smooth, as little grip as possible. Inverted rubbers do not have a friction limit. Long pips MUST have a certain amount of friction.

Old generation are 'classic' antis like super anti, best anti etc. where they do have some grip.

New generation comes from der material specialist or dr neubauer types.

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2021, 23:37 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 07 Jun 2016, 02:58
Posts: 12
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 11 times
I think this article might be of great help to you:
https://merelytheories.blogspot.com/2021/08/why-do-choppers-use-long-pips.html

It is looking at long pips from the viewpoint of a chopper mainly, but it gives you a good idea of how long pips work, and what makes them advantageous to choppers. Blocking is a bit different, but general rules still apply.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2021, 05:42 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2020, 21:31
Posts: 415
Location: Catalonia
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 43 times
Blade: D. M. S. The Wall Def-
FH: S&T Secret Flow Chop
BH: Spectre OX
I wil change before the forehand rubber.

Also you didn't control the Thibar Grass DTecs, go for a slower as someone pointed: cheap Dawei, the bang fot the bug Dornenglanz if you cant control.

I with slower forehand & bakchand rubbers you still no control & send high balls you must change the blade for a slow one.

_________________
No more political prisoners in Catalonia.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 69 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group